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TeXmacs 1.99.14 released. Take a look at this research paper exported to HTML
- karmakaze 6y agoThis is great! I like the content of research papers but not the pdf format that they're published in when web browsing.
- bonoboTP 6y agoReflowing papers often produces subpar results. The authors often pay attention to details like on which page certain tables and figures end up, that equations appear where they should etc. I've seen many attempts at rendering HTML from e.g. Arxiv papers and the layout is almost always broken. Paper authors often employ a lot of Latex wizardry to get precisely the layout that they want, and these conversion tools mostly choke on that.
- redvenom 6y agoThis is definitely true. There are also other things that are very difficult to get to work for math papers in HTML (even with conversions) such complex TikZ and other diagrams. Also, HTML rendering is still pretty ugly compared to LaTeX PDFs because LaTeX has a much better typesetting engine including hyphenation. With subtle changes meaning huge semantic differences in math diagrams, I still much prefer to read PDFs.
- bonoboTP 6y agoRight, changing the equation fonts may also create ambiguity, some custom, complicated equations (several levels of super and subscript, various bars etc) might use some latex hacks or workarounds. It would require that the authors also create and polish an HTML version, which is extra work. Even on the official IEEE sites papers look way worse in the HTML view, even though I guess someone at least tries to tweak the to appear okayish. Purists would argue to separate the "presentation layer" from the underlying content, but it's never like that in the messy real world. Content and presentation are very much intertwined and abstractions are too leaky.
- postit 6y agoThat's basically what pandoc is for, and it works.
- pmiller2 6y agoThat's like saying we don't need chopsticks for eating food, because that's what forks are for, and they work.
- mrtranscendence 6y agoI once watched my father in law try to eat rice with chopsticks. It was an excruciating, grain by grain process. Truly terrible to behold. I wish I would’ve told him “forks work, that’s what forks are for”.
- xvilka 6y agoEating food slowly is healthier.
- lejalv 6y agoThe TeXmacs official book, by Joris van der Hoeven, is just out: https://www.scypress.com/book_info.html https://www.scypress.com/book_info.html
- avrionov 6y agoIt looks beautiful. Can it convert pdfs to HTML too?
- longstation 6y agoI believe the built-in Firefox PDF reader does exactly this.
- kzrdude 6y agoIs it possible to use the computer modern font?
- moonchild 6y agoYou should be able to just set it in the CSS.
- gjstein 6y agoThough I suppose it's possible to switch to Computer Modern via the CSS, the equations seems to be included as PNG's. The font of those would not change simply by modifying the CSS.
- 1-more 6y agoit's all about \usepackage[garamond]{mathdesign} after running sudo getnonfreefonts --sys -a
- chriszhang 6y agoIs this using images for math? Can it use Mathjax for math? Mathjax has nice accessibility tools that is very good for reading math.
- lol768 6y agoYeah, it would be nicer if it used MathML (via Mathjax or other means).
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- porphyra 6y agoI prefer SVG images with alt text for the original LaTeX equation. MathML has terrible browser support [1] and often results in inconsistently rendered, ugly equations. MathJax and KaTeX are nice but sometimes I prefer not to have JavaScript for these things that ought to be static. [1] https://caniuse.com/mathml https://caniuse.com/mathml
- j-pb 6y agoSure, let's shift all the incovenience towards the blind, can't have less than the prettiest of formula.
- moonchild 6y agoOdd...why did chrome add support and then rescind it one version later? Or is the table incorrect?
- zamadatix 6y agohttps://bugs.chromium.org/p/chromium/issues/detail?id=152430#c76 https://bugs.chromium.org/p/chromium/issues/detail?id=152430... It's being worked on again though https://www.chromestatus.com/feature/5240822173794304 https://www.chromestatus.com/feature/5240822173794304 by https://mathml.igalia.com/ https://mathml.igalia.com/
- rainworld 6y agoLooks good but shows that text-wrap: pretty [0] and MathML Core [1] cant’t come soon enough. [0]: https://drafts.csswg.org/css-text-4/#text-wrap https://drafts.csswg.org/css-text-4/#text-wrap [1]: https://mathml-refresh.github.io/mathml-core/ https://mathml-refresh.github.io/mathml-core/
- pmiller2 6y agoAgreed. My first thoughts were: "Great, just a few text formatting glitches. Oh, and I wish we could get away from using images for all the math symbols."
- mgubi 6y agoyou can opt for MathML or Mathjax output instead of images, but the majority of the math typesetting is more faithfully exported via images.
- forgotpwd16 6y agoWorth mentioning that TeXmacs can export formulas as MathML rather images though typesetting won't be perfect. For example see [1] for the title's paper. [1]: https://stoic-pasteur-d13e52.netlify.app/ https://stoic-pasteur-d13e52.netlify.app/
- drran 6y agoBut some symbols (e.g. circle) are replaced by '?'.
- andreareina 6y agoAre you sure that's not from your display font missing the symbol? I've got (unfilled) circles rendering for me.
- drran 6y agoIt's ASCII '?'. It looks like a problem with TeXmacs converter into MathML, not a rendering problem.
- ignoranceprior 6y agoOn my connection it takes like 30 seconds for the full page to become readable because of all the images. MathML would be more efficient, I think.
- drran 6y agoMathML is better (in Firefox), but, for example, in the formula at the end of 2.1 section, circle is replaced by '?'. [0]: https://stoic-pasteur-d13e52.netlify.app/ https://stoic-pasteur-d13e52.netlify.app/
- svat 6y agoNote that TeXmacs is not based on TeX/LaTeX (and not on Emacs either). It is a completely independent editor, typesetting language, graphical frontend etc, all in one. Its developer, Joris van der Hoeven, is one of the co-authors of this research paper that has been exported to HTML, so I presume that the paper was written specifically in/for TeXmacs: your arbitrary LaTeX document won't be so easily importable into TeXmacs AFAIK.
- taeric 6y agoThat... is less than straight forward. Quirks of history?
- krupan 6y agoThis reminds me of grape nuts cereal. You look at the ingredients and there are no grapes and no nuts
- Igelau 6y agoThe Wind Fish in name only, for it is neither.
- tzs 6y agoHow it came to be called Grape-Nuts when it is neither is explained on grapenuts.com [1]: > Grape-Nuts actually contains neither grapes nor nuts. It’s made from wheat and barley. So, why is it called Grape-Nuts? As with many great emblems in history, there are two versions of the story. One says that Mr. Post believed glucose, which he called “grape sugar,” formed during the baking process. This, combined with the nutty flavor of the cereal, is said to have inspired its name. Another explanation claims that the cereal got its name from its resemblance to grape seeds, or grape “nuts.” [1] https://www.grapenuts.com/our-story/ https://www.grapenuts.com/our-story/
- ur-whale 6y agoNice work, but a bit disappointing : formulas are rendered as pictures and therefore can't be selected and copied. When will HTML be able to render maths natively? And if it can, shouldn't Texmacs use that?
- Tade0 6y agoWell, technically it can already: https://katex.org/ https://katex.org/ And the copy-pasted output isn't even very terrible.
- GiovanniP 6y agoTeXmacs can export formulae in MathJax format--there is a setting for that; I have been able to copy formulae to the clipboard (using right-click -> Copy to Clipboard, not by selecting) obtaining what seemed to me the correct LaTeX code. I do not know what is the standard for copying MathJax; I have see this thread of November 2019 (https://github.com/mathjax/MathJax/issues/2240 https://github.com/mathjax/MathJax/issues/2240) where someone states that " MathJax output can't be copied directly from the page in version 3", so perhaps the copying of the output with the right click menu is the standard now. TeXmacs can also export to MathML, I tested it and the output was not satisfactory there.
- abraxaz 6y agoOr you can go for asciidoctor where you get incredibly good html output and PDF output that you can style via css (https://github.com/Mogztter/asciidoctor-web-pdf https://github.com/Mogztter/asciidoctor-web-pdf) with mathjax support.
- bawolff 6y agoPretty except the browser based text justification leaves a lot to be desired.
- civilized 6y agoAs a mathematician I appreciate the greatness of the extended TeX universe as much as anyone, but this is fuuuuuugly. The equation font is too light and weak compared to the text, and the equations don't align nearly as well to the text as in a normal LaTeX PDF.
- DoctorNick 6y agoHeh, I thought that David Harvey had switched fields for a second there.
- ChuckMcM 6y agoThis is an interesting project, don't try reading the page in "reader mode" you will be disappointed. And as it is pointed out elsewhere don't try throwing your LaTex paper at it, that isn't what it is. What it is, is a package that one can write such a paper in, and then "publish" it to the web. Which, as a special purpose CMS, has uses. Papers are a reasonably large body of work. What I keep hoping for is a 'journal' that publishes papers in their mark up language that look good on the web, or when printed on paper, and retain meta data for good reference chasing. Further, the amount of typographic artifacts that should be thrown around with the paper would ideally be minimal and widely distributed/standardized. This is a hard problem, and one of the first inspirations for creating the world wide web. So any efforts that so progress are to be lauded and this is one such effort.
- dash2 6y agoI used TeXmacs for a while back in 2006-7. It had a beautiful wysiwyg interface and the most elegant way of writing equations. You used the tab key a lot to cycle between symbols. So "3=<tab>4" might turn the = into an equivalence sign; another tab might give you approximately equal; and so on. Or "a -> <tab> " would let you cycle through different arrow styles. In the end I gave up because LyX seemed better supported. I've not tried it for a long time. Since then I've learned to hate TeX vehemently; that system really needs to die. It would be good to have more alternatives. (TeXmacs itself isn't TeX, but uses some weird lisp-like syntax IIRC.)
- beagle3 6y agoWhat do you want TeX to be replaced by?
- packetlost 6y agoAs someone who is thinking of putting in the effort to learn TeX... why do you hate it?
- II2II 6y agoTeX or LaTeX? TeX is a typesetting system that may be interesting to learn if you're interested in that sort of thing. LaTeX is a collection of TeX macros that are used while preparing documents, and probably isn't worth the effort to learn unless you have a specific need for it. LaTeX has a number of positives. One is that it encourages the writer to focus upon the logical structure of documents, rather than the formatting. This is useful when preparing an articles or books for publication (when the publisher supports or accepts LaTeX). LaTeX is also good for certain types of technical publications, particularly those involving mathematics, since it handles the typesetting. Beyond that, LaTeX is an unwieldy mess. If the standard macros don't do what you want of them, you either need to create your own or find some made by someone else. In many respects, it is like working with a library with programming. You'll need to figure out how to properly install those macros and you will need to figure out how to use them. Most people avoid the former by installing a rather massive TeX distribution that satisfies most of their needs. There is no way to get around the latter. You will have to read the documentation. Once you have everything you need and know how to use it, there is the problem of creating the actual document. Tables and figures may not appear where you wish them to and there are times when you may wish to do something unusual, such as placing a wide table on it's own page and rotating it 90 degrees. Pretty much anything you may need to do is doable, but it is non-trivial to figure out. Not only is is non-trivial to do, but it is entangled in markup that is frequently difficult to read and may require a "compilation" to see the outcome. None of that is meant to discourage you from learning LaTeX. There are cases where it is tremendously useful, it may be easier than the alternatives, and the quality of the product is usually quite good. The problem is that you pretty much need to know when to use LaTeX to reap the actual benefits.
- dn3500 6y agoI don't get it. It's practically unreadable on my screen. What I see is white on black in huge text (24 point or more?) with the formulae rendered as images. Am I doing something wrong?
- sadhen 6y agoGNU TeXmacs on github: https://github.com/texmacs/texmacs https://github.com/texmacs/texmacs Join us to make GNU TeXmacs better.
- sadhen 6y agoFor GNU TeXmacs 1.99.14, there is also a nice Octave plugins (builtin) for Windows/Linux/macOS.
- kontxt 6y agoCool! Looks nice! Check out https://kontxt.io https://kontxt.io. It can convert PDFs to HTML. It also adds an inline collaboration layer to the document with inline highlights, comments, @mentions, polls, tags, and smart navigation. I've tried it on academic papers from arXiv. Awesome for sharing and collaborating with others.
- xvilka 6y agoThey still depend on the old Guile. It needs to be ported to the latest Guile 3.0.x to harness its JIT performance improvements[1]. [1] https://www.gnu.org/software/guile/news/gnu-guile-300-released.html https://www.gnu.org/software/guile/news/gnu-guile-300-releas...
- _ZeD_ 6y agoUgh, ugly... It's possible to at least have a clear version?
- wodenokoto 6y agoOn my laptop and desktop I find the font size to be too big. On my phone it is unreadably small. For a typesetting demo, that is very unfortunate.
- acrefoot 6y agoBack in 2008, I was fascinated by TeXmacs’ sessions concept. You could mix rich text with Python, or SAGE. This is long before the days of jupyter and I thought it was the coolest thing. Since TeXmacs isn’t TeX, and people weren’t looking for Python notebooks, it was hard to convince others to try this document processor with Emacs bindings. I still ended up using it for some personal classwork as an undergrad, and slowly watched Jupyter overtake it in polish and adoption. One killer feature that made it possible to take real-time class notes in TeXmacs is that one could type symbols like Greek letters by typing something like “a” then <tab> to get α. For fast and accurate math entry, TeXmacs > LyX > text editors with completion.
- amai 6y agoTake a look at this PhD thesis. It was converted from real LaTeX to HTML with LaTeXML: https://asmaier.github.io/phdthesis https://asmaier.github.io/phdthesis Source code is here: https://github.com/asmaier/phdthesis https://github.com/asmaier/phdthesis