8 ms·

Down to the Suburbs

44 points by eldavido 6y ago

throwaway0a5e 6y ago
So the covid forced return of the young urban professionals will be the savior of all the places they hail from? As someone who grew up in one of the kinds of places these people retire to when they're old and gray I have some serious doubts that they are going to do anything other than tell everyone else "you're doing it wrong".
- Loughla 6y ago
  I choose to live in an area of the country people seem to move to only if they have no other opportunities as youth, or are old enough to not worry about opportunities via retirement. It's cheap here, is what I'm saying. And many, many young people are moving back and have 'discovered' farming, forestry, and gardening. They treat it like they've discovered some long forgotten relic of an ancient past. We do those things already. The difference is, nobody in their 80's, and nobody struggling with a family farm is making an instagram about it. Maybe I'm getting old, and maybe I'm getting crotchety. But, if one more 20-30 year old tells me how I should be growing crops and how crop rotation works, without letting me interject that I've been doing this for longer than they've been alive, and have a current, operating partnership with the local University co-op for soil/water/native wildlife conservation projects, I'll scream.
  - dylan604 6y ago
    We've all been there. As a younger person, you know everything! The old farts don't know what it's like. I can't believe they haven't tried this new thing! As an older person, we're like why do you keep insisting on doing it the wrong way thinking it is a new way to only discover there was nothing wrong with the old way.
    - Loughla 6y ago
      But this is different. This isn't 'new way' in this case. This is solidly - 'old way' and 'you're already doing it, but let me tell you how I know so much more than you'. I've lived long enough to understand that young people want new and exciting. I tried to convince my 90+ year old grandfather to invest in hemp farming in the early 90's. I get it. But, again, this is different. There's a level of arrogance. There's a level of - you're over 45, so you can't possibly understand the internet and what's available. And there is a steadfast refusal to listen to other opinions and ideas, unless they're explicitly endorsed by glam farmers or celebrities on instagram. I know that all sounds so crotchety and old, but it's the truth. This isn't just 'new is better'. This is 'I am better'. It's different.
- closeparen 6y ago
  Which is it? Try to work through official public channels, and you’re just telling people they’re doing it wrong. Take action yourself and you’re usurping power that rightly belongs to the community. Do nothing and you’re a miserly transient failing to care about or invest in your community. Stay away and you’re an uppity, entitled elite who thinks you’re too good for the place. The locals are going to resent you no matter what, so maybe just do what you want.
cafard 6y ago
Can't help but think he'll get along great with the local truck drivers.
- bowmessage 6y ago
  It's "learn to code" all over again. What a tone-deaf article.
grahamburger 6y ago
Might I recommend helping out by working on connectivity projects, even to the extent of starting a local ISP? Internet access in many parts of the U.S. is pretty bad, and improving it would open up many new opportunities for remote work, remote learning, and tele-health. Due to the pandemic there is increased availability of funding for these types of projects, even to the extent that for example some health-care providers are considering funding or directly running a local ISP just to support their tele-health customers, because otherwise they are totally cut off from their patients. If you're interested in talking more about this check out my profile, I run a website about this kind of thing.
- eecc 6y ago
  I remember an ISP in Berlin - something 15 year ago - that would deploy their own WiFi routers to provide service and support their own radio backbone. Forgot the name though...
  - LargoLasskhyfv 6y ago
    https://freifunk.net/en/ https://freifunk.net/en/ ?
    - eecc 6y ago
      Could be
logifail 6y ago
> We did it because Silicon Valley instilled in us a bias for action, and gave us the skills, and connections, to get it done but then > Don’t be obnoxious. Listen as much as you talk. Don’t be a blowhard. Q: How much are the 'bias for action' and 'skills' relevant, compared with having connections and - just possibly - money ?
- ksdale 6y ago
  I was thinking the same thing... lack of capital is perhaps the main reason that people in poorly maintained suburbs aren't buying buildings to start bakeries and daycares, rather than a lack of initiative...
  - eldavido 6y ago
    (Author here). I've been surprised that that's generally not the case. Cities spend money on all sorts of things -- their own tax revenues, as well as grants from higher levels of govenment (state and local). If you look at the incentive structures of most local governments, their leadership wants to be seen as "doing something". This usually translates into big, tangible projects, particularly "infrastructure", that's "large" and that ordinary people can understand: bridges, malls, stadiums, etc. Coming from venture tech, these projects are mind-bogglingly expensive. Even a mid-size office building costs millions to construct. 10-20 stories, big underground garages, easily into $xx or even $100 million, or more. These aren't pie-in-the-sky numbers, my wife is a practicing San Francisco architect. It costs $60-70 million to build a 200-unit "affordable" apartment building with ground-floor retail. That's like 5-10 mid-sized series As. Just to build a damn building. Point being, in my conversations with the city government, they all sort of know there's something going pretty right in these coastal cities -- many places would kill to have the tax base and jobs of a place like Austin, or San Francisco -- they really just don't know _how_ to facilitate that. So much city government is wrapped up in tangible infrastructure like business parks, highways, and shopping centers when the things I most need, as someone building a technology company, is a nice, walkable downtown, easy-to-lease commercial real estate (not landlords that require 10-year terms, 20 years of operating history, and AAA credit), a reasonably responsive government, fast broadband, a few decent coffeeshops and restaurants, and nice people. None of these things are especially expensive and given how dysfunctional a lot of the coastal cities have become, it's not hard for a lot of places to provide. They just need to know _how_.
barry27 6y ago
What a pile of entitled nonsense. "Down" to the suburbs? From "up" in the rarefied intellectual world of pointless internet companies, I suppose. People don't like this kind of condescension, with good reason. And how about that slab of concrete. What an achievement! The poor suburbanites must find it a true thing of wonder.
scottLobster 6y ago
The author makes a typical assumption: that people actually want things to be better. Quite often people make their situation worse despite being made aware of the consequences. On some level, even if they can't/won't articulate it, that's what they want. As I've gotten older (currently in my early 30s), my experience has been that most people are resentful and jealous under the surface, and they want to take out that resentment and jealousy on the world in some manner. Particularly in hard-hit and neglected areas of the country where 99% of the motivated and capable people who might have been inclined to help your optimistic vision moved out long ago. That doesn't mean there's nothing to be done or that every neglected suburb/small town is irredeemable, but I'd be careful not to apply social optimism too generally. No amount of optimism or energy will allow you to grow crops in a salted field, you can only directly help those who want to be helped. Spend your energy where it's most productive. That said the author is correct in that leading by example, not being a dick about it, and fixing peoples' problems is about the only tool available with any hope of earning the respect of those who disagree with you. So if you have the time, money, skill and energy it's worth at least a few tries before declaring an area beyond repair. :)
- eldavido 6y ago
  (Original author here) Fight vs. flight. How do you decide? I'm just a bit older than you (36 currently) and haven't figured it out yet. Like, if I think the politics somewhere are a dumpster fire, or to use your analogy, growing crops in a salted field, how do I pick the battles I'll fight, vs. the ones where it's best to let go? Offhand, I tend to think it's worth fighting for when the thing is very important to you personally, it's something only you can do (whether by dint of identity, skills, whatever), or the benefits are large. Probably not worth it when you don't have the patience (might take ten years but you only want to put in 5), the other side is too entrenched, or the upside isn't worth it. Would love to hear your thoughts on this.
  - OldHand2018 6y ago
    In your blog post, you mention that you are doing all this in Homewood, IL which, while declining a bit from the time when you grew up, is still a pretty nice place. With a commuter train connection to one of the largest business districts in the US, there are still tons of ambitious and motivated people around you. Your local high school is shared with the much wealthier city next to you, etc. I don't think the person writing the comment was imagining this kind of city. Good luck reversing the decline of the South Suburbs. It will take a lot of work. The largest problem, in my opinion, are the oppressive property taxes (municipal consolidation is probably the only solution). Do you really think that someone can live comfortably down there for $20-30k per year? Or are you talking in terms of founders that have plenty of capital and only need $20-30k in living costs? I really don't think it's that cheap...
liminal 6y ago
I was nodding along until the author talked about taking issues that are rightfully the government's responsibility into their own hands. This is exactly the wrong thing to do -- to usurp power from those who rightfully wield it, whether they wield it well or poorly. This is like Uber doing the government a favor by taking over the responsibility of public transit. Sure you might get where you're going, but you've undermined the democratic institutions that allowed everyone to participate and privatized a portion of the public realm.
- throwaway0a5e 6y ago
  This is one of the things the author gets right. The people who already live in these places have a different idea of what is and isn't the government's responsibility.
- ksdale 6y ago
  I think democracy is perfectly compatible with usurping power from those who wield it poorly. It would be great if the government solved these problems, but I don't think it's my place to tell someone to just sit there and take it when the government doesn't solve those problems.
  - panzagl 6y ago
    That's pretty much the definition of fascism there.
    - mistermann 6y ago
      I don't think that's actually true. https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/fascism https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/fascism > 1: a political philosophy, movement, or regime (such as that of the Fascisti) that exalts nation and often race above the individual and that stands for a centralized autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader, severe economic and social regimentation, and forcible suppression of opposition > 2 : a tendency toward or actual exercise of strong autocratic or dictatorial control early instances of army fascism and brutality https://www.dictionary.com/browse/fascism https://www.dictionary.com/browse/fascism > a governmental system led by a dictator having complete power, forcibly suppressing opposition and criticism, regimenting all industry, commerce, etc., and emphasizing an aggressive nationalism and often racism. > the philosophy, principles, or methods of fascism. > a political movement that employs the principles and methods of fascism, especially the one established by Mussolini in Italy 1922–43. The "usurping power" part sounds a bit scary if interpreted too literally, but realistically, I think /u/ksdale had something in mind more along the lines of ~if the government has a long track record of fucking up initiatives, a better response than sitting there and taking it is getting off your ass and do something about it. That was my interpretation, and to me that sounds like a pretty decent idea, although surely risky in some scenarios depending how one goes about it.
ocdtrekkie 6y ago
I can feel the incredible arrogance of this post from here. "I, who came from the source of half the problems we're in, am smarter and better because I am from the Valley. I will fix everywhere else's problems because I am optimistic about it!"
- criddell 6y ago
  Well, he did also say: > Don’t be obnoxious. Listen as much as you talk. Don’t be a blowhard.
- yesimahuman 6y ago
  Yea, this was hard to read and was oozing with SV elitism and savior complex. I live in the suburbs in the Midwest. I work in tech. My company builds open source technology used by millions of developers around the world. My neighbors work at leading health care technology companies or startups. We did all of this on our own. In fact, many of us here in tech have scars from being discounted outright by SV investors simply based on location. Show some respect and humility for what we've built here on our own, without your seemingly necessary support, or you'll find this movement backfire.
DubiousPusher 6y ago
When I went from being an evangelical christian studying theology to an atheist a whole world of conversations opened up to me. I could suddenly talk to people of almost any faith about their religion which had been hard before. But only as long as they held their faith kind of loosely as a cultural or philosophical mantle. But I could no longer have the same kind of conversations that I used to with my old theology friends who were all still Biblical literalists. Not that every conversation devoloved into argument nor that I was even particularly insistent on my new view. But after some amount of talking we'd hit a disagreement and quickly find the root of that disagreement was some basic belief we held about the universe. Something as atheological as why people are philanderers comes down to whether you believe in evolution via natural selection or original sin. And that is where America is politically today. There are fundamental facts and values we disagree about. I find writing like this to be incredibly patronizing. As if people aren't already having polite discussions about politics. As if people are voting and do not know what they are for and against. The funny part too is that we are at a point where that is least true. Voter's knowledge of their party's policies is at an all time high. It's hard to accept that we just fundamentally disagree. But that is the fact. Eventually, one side is going to win or we'll remain deadlocked and muddle on with some hybrid policies from both sides. But the polite conversation over the pot roast isn't going to convince Nana that fetuses don't have souls. That's not a simple difference of opinion it's a difference of faith.
- ip26 6y ago
  There's so many other things that need attention, and I am coming to think our inability to set aside our conflicting basic beliefs is a big part of the problem. Like, Nana, Ok- you and I disagree about whether fetuses have souls. But can we talk about some other incredibly important but less emotionally charged issues for a minute, where we might be able to find agreement and do something good? I point to Colorado 2013 and Colorado 2019. - In 2012, the Democrats got full control & went after guns. They were recalled & lost control. Little was accomplished. - In 2018, the Democrats took back full control. Polis went after instituting publicly-funded full-day kindergarten. This was a real accomplishment for everyone. Basically, if I was a political candidate, my platform would be a ceasefire on the most high-profile wedge issues for the duration of my term!
rustybelt 6y ago
This is white-savior level condescension, which is fitting since Homewood has been trending towards majority-minority demographics for a few decades and may get there this census.
- jmtame 6y ago
  The irony isn't lost in seeing a bunch of HN comments criticizing an article as condescending, only to come in and condescend the OP. We can do better on HN discourse.
busrf 6y ago
It is....hard to take this article seriously when it compares the Chinese cultural revolution’s forced resettlement of millions of people to white collar workers moving out of Silicon Valley voluntarily because they CAN work remotely and WANT to save money. Even as an interesting anecdote/analogy to open the article with. The lack of perspective is a bit mind boggling to me. Like, the former fucked up quite literally an entire generation of people.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
throwmamatrain 6y ago
Moving out of a city because the author wanted to save money and live with their parents is not a forced migration. The places lived still exist, and will exist long after. The mental gymnastics are stunning. No one "strip mined" this guy into a comfy six figure job.

44 points by eldavido 6y ago

So the covid forced return of the young urban professionals will be the savior of all the places they hail from? As someone who grew up in one of the kinds of places these people retire to when they're old and gray I have some serious doubts that they are going to do anything other than tell everyone else "you're doing it wrong".

Loughla 6y ago
I choose to live in an area of the country people seem to move to only if they have no other opportunities as youth, or are old enough to not worry about opportunities via retirement. It's cheap here, is what I'm saying. And many, many young people are moving back and have 'discovered' farming, forestry, and gardening. They treat it like they've discovered some long forgotten relic of an ancient past. We do those things already. The difference is, nobody in their 80's, and nobody struggling with a family farm is making an instagram about it. Maybe I'm getting old, and maybe I'm getting crotchety. But, if one more 20-30 year old tells me how I should be growing crops and how crop rotation works, without letting me interject that I've been doing this for longer than they've been alive, and have a current, operating partnership with the local University co-op for soil/water/native wildlife conservation projects, I'll scream.
- dylan604 6y ago
  We've all been there. As a younger person, you know everything! The old farts don't know what it's like. I can't believe they haven't tried this new thing! As an older person, we're like why do you keep insisting on doing it the wrong way thinking it is a new way to only discover there was nothing wrong with the old way.
  - Loughla 6y ago
    But this is different. This isn't 'new way' in this case. This is solidly - 'old way' and 'you're already doing it, but let me tell you how I know so much more than you'. I've lived long enough to understand that young people want new and exciting. I tried to convince my 90+ year old grandfather to invest in hemp farming in the early 90's. I get it. But, again, this is different. There's a level of arrogance. There's a level of - you're over 45, so you can't possibly understand the internet and what's available. And there is a steadfast refusal to listen to other opinions and ideas, unless they're explicitly endorsed by glam farmers or celebrities on instagram. I know that all sounds so crotchety and old, but it's the truth. This isn't just 'new is better'. This is 'I am better'. It's different.
closeparen 6y ago
Which is it? Try to work through official public channels, and you’re just telling people they’re doing it wrong. Take action yourself and you’re usurping power that rightly belongs to the community. Do nothing and you’re a miserly transient failing to care about or invest in your community. Stay away and you’re an uppity, entitled elite who thinks you’re too good for the place. The locals are going to resent you no matter what, so maybe just do what you want.

cafard 6y ago

Can't help but think he'll get along great with the local truck drivers.

bowmessage 6y ago
It's "learn to code" all over again. What a tone-deaf article.

grahamburger 6y ago

Might I recommend helping out by working on connectivity projects, even to the extent of starting a local ISP? Internet access in many parts of the U.S. is pretty bad, and improving it would open up many new opportunities for remote work, remote learning, and tele-health. Due to the pandemic there is increased availability of funding for these types of projects, even to the extent that for example some health-care providers are considering funding or directly running a local ISP just to support their tele-health customers, because otherwise they are totally cut off from their patients. If you're interested in talking more about this check out my profile, I run a website about this kind of thing.

eecc 6y ago
I remember an ISP in Berlin - something 15 year ago - that would deploy their own WiFi routers to provide service and support their own radio backbone. Forgot the name though...
- LargoLasskhyfv 6y ago
  https://freifunk.net/en/ https://freifunk.net/en/ ?
  - eecc 6y ago
    Could be

logifail 6y ago

> We did it because Silicon Valley instilled in us a bias for action, and gave us the skills, and connections, to get it done but then > Don’t be obnoxious. Listen as much as you talk. Don’t be a blowhard. Q: How much are the 'bias for action' and 'skills' relevant, compared with having connections and - just possibly - money ?

ksdale 6y ago
I was thinking the same thing... lack of capital is perhaps the main reason that people in poorly maintained suburbs aren't buying buildings to start bakeries and daycares, rather than a lack of initiative...
- eldavido 6y ago
  (Author here). I've been surprised that that's generally not the case. Cities spend money on all sorts of things -- their own tax revenues, as well as grants from higher levels of govenment (state and local). If you look at the incentive structures of most local governments, their leadership wants to be seen as "doing something". This usually translates into big, tangible projects, particularly "infrastructure", that's "large" and that ordinary people can understand: bridges, malls, stadiums, etc. Coming from venture tech, these projects are mind-bogglingly expensive. Even a mid-size office building costs millions to construct. 10-20 stories, big underground garages, easily into $xx or even $100 million, or more. These aren't pie-in-the-sky numbers, my wife is a practicing San Francisco architect. It costs $60-70 million to build a 200-unit "affordable" apartment building with ground-floor retail. That's like 5-10 mid-sized series As. Just to build a damn building. Point being, in my conversations with the city government, they all sort of know there's something going pretty right in these coastal cities -- many places would kill to have the tax base and jobs of a place like Austin, or San Francisco -- they really just don't know _how_ to facilitate that. So much city government is wrapped up in tangible infrastructure like business parks, highways, and shopping centers when the things I most need, as someone building a technology company, is a nice, walkable downtown, easy-to-lease commercial real estate (not landlords that require 10-year terms, 20 years of operating history, and AAA credit), a reasonably responsive government, fast broadband, a few decent coffeeshops and restaurants, and nice people. None of these things are especially expensive and given how dysfunctional a lot of the coastal cities have become, it's not hard for a lot of places to provide. They just need to know _how_.

barry27 6y ago

What a pile of entitled nonsense. "Down" to the suburbs? From "up" in the rarefied intellectual world of pointless internet companies, I suppose. People don't like this kind of condescension, with good reason. And how about that slab of concrete. What an achievement! The poor suburbanites must find it a true thing of wonder.

scottLobster 6y ago

The author makes a typical assumption: that people actually want things to be better. Quite often people make their situation worse despite being made aware of the consequences. On some level, even if they can't/won't articulate it, that's what they want. As I've gotten older (currently in my early 30s), my experience has been that most people are resentful and jealous under the surface, and they want to take out that resentment and jealousy on the world in some manner. Particularly in hard-hit and neglected areas of the country where 99% of the motivated and capable people who might have been inclined to help your optimistic vision moved out long ago. That doesn't mean there's nothing to be done or that every neglected suburb/small town is irredeemable, but I'd be careful not to apply social optimism too generally. No amount of optimism or energy will allow you to grow crops in a salted field, you can only directly help those who want to be helped. Spend your energy where it's most productive. That said the author is correct in that leading by example, not being a dick about it, and fixing peoples' problems is about the only tool available with any hope of earning the respect of those who disagree with you. So if you have the time, money, skill and energy it's worth at least a few tries before declaring an area beyond repair. :)

eldavido 6y ago
(Original author here) Fight vs. flight. How do you decide? I'm just a bit older than you (36 currently) and haven't figured it out yet. Like, if I think the politics somewhere are a dumpster fire, or to use your analogy, growing crops in a salted field, how do I pick the battles I'll fight, vs. the ones where it's best to let go? Offhand, I tend to think it's worth fighting for when the thing is very important to you personally, it's something only you can do (whether by dint of identity, skills, whatever), or the benefits are large. Probably not worth it when you don't have the patience (might take ten years but you only want to put in 5), the other side is too entrenched, or the upside isn't worth it. Would love to hear your thoughts on this.
- OldHand2018 6y ago
  In your blog post, you mention that you are doing all this in Homewood, IL which, while declining a bit from the time when you grew up, is still a pretty nice place. With a commuter train connection to one of the largest business districts in the US, there are still tons of ambitious and motivated people around you. Your local high school is shared with the much wealthier city next to you, etc. I don't think the person writing the comment was imagining this kind of city. Good luck reversing the decline of the South Suburbs. It will take a lot of work. The largest problem, in my opinion, are the oppressive property taxes (municipal consolidation is probably the only solution). Do you really think that someone can live comfortably down there for $20-30k per year? Or are you talking in terms of founders that have plenty of capital and only need $20-30k in living costs? I really don't think it's that cheap...

liminal 6y ago

I was nodding along until the author talked about taking issues that are rightfully the government's responsibility into their own hands. This is exactly the wrong thing to do -- to usurp power from those who rightfully wield it, whether they wield it well or poorly. This is like Uber doing the government a favor by taking over the responsibility of public transit. Sure you might get where you're going, but you've undermined the democratic institutions that allowed everyone to participate and privatized a portion of the public realm.

throwaway0a5e 6y ago
This is one of the things the author gets right. The people who already live in these places have a different idea of what is and isn't the government's responsibility.
ksdale 6y ago
I think democracy is perfectly compatible with usurping power from those who wield it poorly. It would be great if the government solved these problems, but I don't think it's my place to tell someone to just sit there and take it when the government doesn't solve those problems.
- panzagl 6y ago
  That's pretty much the definition of fascism there.
  - mistermann 6y ago
    I don't think that's actually true. https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/fascism https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/fascism > 1: a political philosophy, movement, or regime (such as that of the Fascisti) that exalts nation and often race above the individual and that stands for a centralized autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader, severe economic and social regimentation, and forcible suppression of opposition > 2 : a tendency toward or actual exercise of strong autocratic or dictatorial control early instances of army fascism and brutality https://www.dictionary.com/browse/fascism https://www.dictionary.com/browse/fascism > a governmental system led by a dictator having complete power, forcibly suppressing opposition and criticism, regimenting all industry, commerce, etc., and emphasizing an aggressive nationalism and often racism. > the philosophy, principles, or methods of fascism. > a political movement that employs the principles and methods of fascism, especially the one established by Mussolini in Italy 1922–43. The "usurping power" part sounds a bit scary if interpreted too literally, but realistically, I think /u/ksdale had something in mind more along the lines of ~if the government has a long track record of fucking up initiatives, a better response than sitting there and taking it is getting off your ass and do something about it. That was my interpretation, and to me that sounds like a pretty decent idea, although surely risky in some scenarios depending how one goes about it.

ocdtrekkie 6y ago

I can feel the incredible arrogance of this post from here. "I, who came from the source of half the problems we're in, am smarter and better because I am from the Valley. I will fix everywhere else's problems because I am optimistic about it!"

criddell 6y ago
Well, he did also say: > Don’t be obnoxious. Listen as much as you talk. Don’t be a blowhard.
yesimahuman 6y ago
Yea, this was hard to read and was oozing with SV elitism and savior complex. I live in the suburbs in the Midwest. I work in tech. My company builds open source technology used by millions of developers around the world. My neighbors work at leading health care technology companies or startups. We did all of this on our own. In fact, many of us here in tech have scars from being discounted outright by SV investors simply based on location. Show some respect and humility for what we've built here on our own, without your seemingly necessary support, or you'll find this movement backfire.

DubiousPusher 6y ago

When I went from being an evangelical christian studying theology to an atheist a whole world of conversations opened up to me. I could suddenly talk to people of almost any faith about their religion which had been hard before. But only as long as they held their faith kind of loosely as a cultural or philosophical mantle. But I could no longer have the same kind of conversations that I used to with my old theology friends who were all still Biblical literalists. Not that every conversation devoloved into argument nor that I was even particularly insistent on my new view. But after some amount of talking we'd hit a disagreement and quickly find the root of that disagreement was some basic belief we held about the universe. Something as atheological as why people are philanderers comes down to whether you believe in evolution via natural selection or original sin. And that is where America is politically today. There are fundamental facts and values we disagree about. I find writing like this to be incredibly patronizing. As if people aren't already having polite discussions about politics. As if people are voting and do not know what they are for and against. The funny part too is that we are at a point where that is least true. Voter's knowledge of their party's policies is at an all time high. It's hard to accept that we just fundamentally disagree. But that is the fact. Eventually, one side is going to win or we'll remain deadlocked and muddle on with some hybrid policies from both sides. But the polite conversation over the pot roast isn't going to convince Nana that fetuses don't have souls. That's not a simple difference of opinion it's a difference of faith.

ip26 6y ago
There's so many other things that need attention, and I am coming to think our inability to set aside our conflicting basic beliefs is a big part of the problem. Like, Nana, Ok- you and I disagree about whether fetuses have souls. But can we talk about some other incredibly important but less emotionally charged issues for a minute, where we might be able to find agreement and do something good? I point to Colorado 2013 and Colorado 2019. - In 2012, the Democrats got full control & went after guns. They were recalled & lost control. Little was accomplished. - In 2018, the Democrats took back full control. Polis went after instituting publicly-funded full-day kindergarten. This was a real accomplishment for everyone. Basically, if I was a political candidate, my platform would be a ceasefire on the most high-profile wedge issues for the duration of my term!

rustybelt 6y ago

This is white-savior level condescension, which is fitting since Homewood has been trending towards majority-minority demographics for a few decades and may get there this census.

jmtame 6y ago
The irony isn't lost in seeing a bunch of HN comments criticizing an article as condescending, only to come in and condescend the OP. We can do better on HN discourse.

busrf 6y ago

It is....hard to take this article seriously when it compares the Chinese cultural revolution’s forced resettlement of millions of people to white collar workers moving out of Silicon Valley voluntarily because they CAN work remotely and WANT to save money. Even as an interesting anecdote/analogy to open the article with. The lack of perspective is a bit mind boggling to me. Like, the former fucked up quite literally an entire generation of people.

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

throwmamatrain 6y ago

Moving out of a city because the author wanted to save money and live with their parents is not a forced migration. The places lived still exist, and will exist long after. The mental gymnastics are stunning. No one "strip mined" this guy into a comfy six figure job.