4 ms·

Well... yes. But obviously to some limit. I don't think the US could extradite someone over matters that don't involve the something in the country.

freeone3000 6y ago
Where is copyright infringement located?
- pessimizer 6y ago
  In every so-called "free trade" agreement.
speeder 6y ago
I am from Brazil... During cold war, any kind of suspected "socialism" seemly counted as "something to do with USA" because a bunch of people were thrown out of helicopters (literally) when they couldn't be extradited.
- 29athrowaway 6y ago
  Same for all Operation Condor countries. It is a trick to avoid prosecution. When no body is found, it is hard to prove the person is dead and therefore hard to prosecute the perpetrators of the murder.
nemothekid 6y ago
>But obviously to some limit The only actual limit is if you hide in Russia or China.
- bloak 6y ago
  I've read that France will not extradite a French citizen. So that's one other place to hide, if you're a French citizen. You won't escape justice that way, I think - if necessary they'll try you in France for a murder you committed in the US - but you'll escape US justice.
  - btilly 6y ago
    I couldn't believe that so I read up on it. And indeed, https://www.foxbusiness.com/markets/french-law-prohibits-extraditing-dsk-back-to-the-u-s https://www.foxbusiness.com/markets/french-law-prohibits-ext... claims that French law says that France will not extradite its own citizens. And they have written that into every treaty they sign. For example http://www.mcnabbassociates.com/France%20International%20Extradition%20Treaty%20with%20the%20United%20States.pdf http://www.mcnabbassociates.com/France%20International%20Ext... is the treaty with the USA and it includes: Article 3(1) declares that neither State has an obligation to extradite its own nationals, but the executive authority of the United States shall have the discretion to do so. The nationality of the person sought shall be the nationality of the person at the time the offense was committed. Article 3(2) requires a State that refuses an extradition request solely on the basis of the nationality of the person sought to submit the case to its authorities for prosecution, if so requested by the Requesting State. It appears that you are entirely correct!
    - toyg 6y ago
      However, France is also subject to the European Arrest Warrant, which means they are "precluded from refusing the surrender of their own nationals wanted for the purposes of prosecution, but they may condition the surrender of a requested person on his or her being returned to the issuing state to serve any sentence ultimately imposed". This is obviously only for other European countries, but I bet you could then extradite from such a country to extra-EU jurisdictions simply with political help. So let's say person X is wanted in the US. They get Country A to emit a warrant for them, A gets X from France, then extradites X to the US.
  - pkaye 6y ago
    An example would be Roman Polanski who fled to France while awaiting sentencing in the US. Also I think Germany will only extradite to EU countries.
  - dylan604 6y ago
    Italy will also refuse extradition depending on the charges. Capital punishment for minors has been a sticky subject for several countries.
- thisisnico 6y ago
  They would let you in just to spite the US.
raverbashing 6y ago
I'd doubt he would be extradited if he was in his country of citizenship
smnrchrds 6y ago
Correct me if I am wrong, but I think US claims jurisdiction over anything that involves a transaction in USD. And because of the way international payment systems are set up, there always is a USD transaction somewhere in the loop. If a Danish customer takes his Danish Krones to the bank and sends them to a supplier in Germany in the form on Euros, the transaction goes like DKK → USD → EUR, so US claims jurisdiction over it and enforces its domestic laws on it: https://www.icenews.is/2012/03/04/us-confiscates-policemans-cuban-cigar-cash/ https://www.icenews.is/2012/03/04/us-confiscates-policemans-... And it doesn't even have to be an international transaction. Even domestic ones sometime run afoul of this limitation, as this Canadian small business owner found out: https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/square-canada-1.5303143 https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/square-canada-1.53031...
- Fumtumi 6y ago
  Sounds and read more like an very rare case where it is not even clear if this holds up in court.
  - smnrchrds 6y ago
    Not really. This is how US is able to unilaterally impose sanctions on Iran. Since international transactions go through USD, they have effectively cut Iran from being able to transact with the rest of the world on a meaningful scale. European countries tried to build an alternative to circumvent the need for a USD layer, but it has not been successful. USD's unique position in the international stage allows US to impose its domestic policy on a large part of the world. From Washington Post: > The power of U.S. sanctions lies in the use of the U.S. dollar in most international transactions. A foreign company that sends its proceeds from trade with Iran through an international bank would likely face sanctions because part of it would be conducted in dollars. An international company with an American employee who has something to do with a transaction, no matter how inconsequential, could also run afoul of U.S. sanctions. https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/iran-plans-to-use-other-currencies-to-get-around-us-sanctions/2018/09/29/230df8e4-d4a3-4429-94be-4dbb90ece08e_story.html https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/iran-...
- 6y ago

freeone3000 6y ago

Where is copyright infringement located?

pessimizer 6y ago
In every so-called "free trade" agreement.

speeder 6y ago

I am from Brazil... During cold war, any kind of suspected "socialism" seemly counted as "something to do with USA" because a bunch of people were thrown out of helicopters (literally) when they couldn't be extradited.

29athrowaway 6y ago
Same for all Operation Condor countries. It is a trick to avoid prosecution. When no body is found, it is hard to prove the person is dead and therefore hard to prosecute the perpetrators of the murder.

nemothekid 6y ago

>But obviously to some limit The only actual limit is if you hide in Russia or China.

bloak 6y ago
I've read that France will not extradite a French citizen. So that's one other place to hide, if you're a French citizen. You won't escape justice that way, I think - if necessary they'll try you in France for a murder you committed in the US - but you'll escape US justice.
- btilly 6y ago
  I couldn't believe that so I read up on it. And indeed, https://www.foxbusiness.com/markets/french-law-prohibits-extraditing-dsk-back-to-the-u-s https://www.foxbusiness.com/markets/french-law-prohibits-ext... claims that French law says that France will not extradite its own citizens. And they have written that into every treaty they sign. For example http://www.mcnabbassociates.com/France%20International%20Extradition%20Treaty%20with%20the%20United%20States.pdf http://www.mcnabbassociates.com/France%20International%20Ext... is the treaty with the USA and it includes: Article 3(1) declares that neither State has an obligation to extradite its own nationals, but the executive authority of the United States shall have the discretion to do so. The nationality of the person sought shall be the nationality of the person at the time the offense was committed. Article 3(2) requires a State that refuses an extradition request solely on the basis of the nationality of the person sought to submit the case to its authorities for prosecution, if so requested by the Requesting State. It appears that you are entirely correct!
  - toyg 6y ago
    However, France is also subject to the European Arrest Warrant, which means they are "precluded from refusing the surrender of their own nationals wanted for the purposes of prosecution, but they may condition the surrender of a requested person on his or her being returned to the issuing state to serve any sentence ultimately imposed". This is obviously only for other European countries, but I bet you could then extradite from such a country to extra-EU jurisdictions simply with political help. So let's say person X is wanted in the US. They get Country A to emit a warrant for them, A gets X from France, then extradites X to the US.
- pkaye 6y ago
  An example would be Roman Polanski who fled to France while awaiting sentencing in the US. Also I think Germany will only extradite to EU countries.
- dylan604 6y ago
  Italy will also refuse extradition depending on the charges. Capital punishment for minors has been a sticky subject for several countries.
thisisnico 6y ago
They would let you in just to spite the US.

raverbashing 6y ago

I'd doubt he would be extradited if he was in his country of citizenship

smnrchrds 6y ago

Correct me if I am wrong, but I think US claims jurisdiction over anything that involves a transaction in USD. And because of the way international payment systems are set up, there always is a USD transaction somewhere in the loop. If a Danish customer takes his Danish Krones to the bank and sends them to a supplier in Germany in the form on Euros, the transaction goes like DKK → USD → EUR, so US claims jurisdiction over it and enforces its domestic laws on it: https://www.icenews.is/2012/03/04/us-confiscates-policemans-cuban-cigar-cash/ https://www.icenews.is/2012/03/04/us-confiscates-policemans-... And it doesn't even have to be an international transaction. Even domestic ones sometime run afoul of this limitation, as this Canadian small business owner found out: https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/square-canada-1.5303143 https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/square-canada-1.53031...

Fumtumi 6y ago
Sounds and read more like an very rare case where it is not even clear if this holds up in court.
- smnrchrds 6y ago
  Not really. This is how US is able to unilaterally impose sanctions on Iran. Since international transactions go through USD, they have effectively cut Iran from being able to transact with the rest of the world on a meaningful scale. European countries tried to build an alternative to circumvent the need for a USD layer, but it has not been successful. USD's unique position in the international stage allows US to impose its domestic policy on a large part of the world. From Washington Post: > The power of U.S. sanctions lies in the use of the U.S. dollar in most international transactions. A foreign company that sends its proceeds from trade with Iran through an international bank would likely face sanctions because part of it would be conducted in dollars. An international company with an American employee who has something to do with a transaction, no matter how inconsequential, could also run afoul of U.S. sanctions. https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/iran-plans-to-use-other-currencies-to-get-around-us-sanctions/2018/09/29/230df8e4-d4a3-4429-94be-4dbb90ece08e_story.html https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/iran-...
6y ago