4 ms·

Well kinda. US and NZ have an extradition treaty. But that's for criminal and not civil law. The unfortunate thing is that copyright is treated as criminal r

Well kinda. US and NZ have an extradition treaty. But that's for criminal and not civil law. The unfortunate thing is that copyright is treated as criminal rather than civil (in the US), so they have claimed jurisdiction.

wdb 6y ago
I always thought the US doesn't extradite its citizens? Why woud an other country extradite its citizens to the US when the US wouldn't its citizens?
- dau 6y ago
  due to an imbalance of power
  - speedgoose 6y ago
    France is weaker than USA and doesn't extradite its citizens.
    - toyg 6y ago
      I'd bet my ass that France does extradite tons of people, maybe just less for certain categories of highly-visible political crimes. They participate in INTERPOL and obviously obey the European Arrest Warrant since 2002. The era of France being a sanctuary for violent leftist activists is long gone.
      - retrac 6y ago
        France does not extradite its own citizens. It's an unconditional constitutional right of French citizens not to be extradited from France. Of course, France today has provisions to prosecute someone in France for a crime committed elsewhere, which satisfies their European neighbours for the most part.
        toyg 6y ago
        The European Arrest Warrant effectively supersedes any constitutional right to non-extradition: "EU countries can no longer refuse to surrender [to other EU members] their own nationals, unless they take over the execution of the prison sentence against the wanted person" [1]. EU members with extradition impediments like France are left with a right to get back prisoners after conviction, to spend the punishment in their own country. There are exceptions and rules but "constitution says no" is not one of them (or at least I could not find it even in the proper text of the Decision [2], and is not mentioned in any note on the matter). This said, a "bad" EU members might well choose to extradite further, once a prisoner is obtained from France. I expect this would trigger appeals at the ECJ and possibly repercussions for the "bad" country, but in the meantime the prisoner might well be gone. I also don't know what the "punishment" would be for a country that refused to execute a valid EAW. I guess this sort of thing is left to ECJ judges. [1] https://ec.europa.eu/info/law/cross-border-cases/judicial-cooperation/types-judicial-cooperation/european-arrest-warrant_en https://ec.europa.eu/info/law/cross-border-cases/judicial-co... [2] https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/HTML/?uri=CELEX:32002F0584&from=en https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/HTML/?uri=CEL...
        retrac 6y ago
        Such laws do not supersede the constitutions of its sovereign member nations. If a member nation's constitution requires something that would place them in violation a treaty agreement, then it would have to fix its constitution or be in violation. The treaty itself doesn't change municipal law, though. (Unless it's a country where it does, anyway. But France is not one of them.) > unless they take over the execution of the prison sentence against the wanted person Yes, that bit. France still cannot extradite its citizens, but it can meet its obligations to its partners by prosecuting and incarcerating someone within France.
- manquer 6y ago
  Extradition treaty does not mean automatic extradition and is not limited to its own citizens.[1] It just means there is a framework for granting a request. There are two types list treaties and dual crime. Dual crime means it has to be crime in both countries, list treaty mean applies to only specific lists of crimes There are other restrictions that could be limiting, some countries won't extradite if the death penality is a possibility, some will not extradite its citizen's but will do visitors or residents etc. As with all deals, there will be always some other items in play while the treaty was negotiated and signed, recognizing or supporting the other country's claim, trade agreements, tariff reduction etc. Depending on the size of the partner the deal will be favourable or not. [1] For example Assange is Australian in UK being extradited to the U.S.
- btilly 6y ago
  The USA does extradite its citizens to other countries. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_extradition_treaties https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_extradit... has a list of countries that the USA can extradite to, and they reciprocate. The USA just happens to be more aggressive about seeking extradition than most.
  - toyg 6y ago
    > The USA just happens to be more aggressive about seeking extradition than most The USA has taken an expansionist view to the definition of jurisdiction, particularly for network-related activity. In short, they basically claim jurisdiction everywhere. That's something that very few other countries can realistically try to pull off without people laughing in their face, and its success is entirely due to might.
- retrac 6y ago
  The US routinely extradites its own citizens with countries it has extradition treaties with. Canada is the most obvious example, and literally hundreds of Americans are deported to Canada to stand trial for alleged offences in that country every year. Very rarely, it does become political.
- AniseAbyss 6y ago
  The only ones who can stand up the US and win is China- as some poor Canadian diplomat is findidng out.
athms 6y ago
> The unfortunate thing is that copyright is treated as criminal rather than civil (in the US)... Only if the infringement is for financial gain, otherwise the infringement is treated as a civil matter. Also, the government must show the act was willful. Whether the infringement is a treated as a misdemeanor or felony is dependent on certain thresholds set in the statute.

wdb 6y ago

I always thought the US doesn't extradite its citizens? Why woud an other country extradite its citizens to the US when the US wouldn't its citizens?

dau 6y ago
due to an imbalance of power
- speedgoose 6y ago
  France is weaker than USA and doesn't extradite its citizens.
  - toyg 6y ago
    I'd bet my ass that France does extradite tons of people, maybe just less for certain categories of highly-visible political crimes. They participate in INTERPOL and obviously obey the European Arrest Warrant since 2002. The era of France being a sanctuary for violent leftist activists is long gone.
    - retrac 6y ago
      France does not extradite its own citizens. It's an unconditional constitutional right of French citizens not to be extradited from France. Of course, France today has provisions to prosecute someone in France for a crime committed elsewhere, which satisfies their European neighbours for the most part.
      - toyg 6y ago
        The European Arrest Warrant effectively supersedes any constitutional right to non-extradition: "EU countries can no longer refuse to surrender [to other EU members] their own nationals, unless they take over the execution of the prison sentence against the wanted person" [1]. EU members with extradition impediments like France are left with a right to get back prisoners after conviction, to spend the punishment in their own country. There are exceptions and rules but "constitution says no" is not one of them (or at least I could not find it even in the proper text of the Decision [2], and is not mentioned in any note on the matter). This said, a "bad" EU members might well choose to extradite further, once a prisoner is obtained from France. I expect this would trigger appeals at the ECJ and possibly repercussions for the "bad" country, but in the meantime the prisoner might well be gone. I also don't know what the "punishment" would be for a country that refused to execute a valid EAW. I guess this sort of thing is left to ECJ judges. [1] https://ec.europa.eu/info/law/cross-border-cases/judicial-cooperation/types-judicial-cooperation/european-arrest-warrant_en https://ec.europa.eu/info/law/cross-border-cases/judicial-co... [2] https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/HTML/?uri=CELEX:32002F0584&from=en https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/HTML/?uri=CEL...
        retrac 6y ago
        Such laws do not supersede the constitutions of its sovereign member nations. If a member nation's constitution requires something that would place them in violation a treaty agreement, then it would have to fix its constitution or be in violation. The treaty itself doesn't change municipal law, though. (Unless it's a country where it does, anyway. But France is not one of them.) > unless they take over the execution of the prison sentence against the wanted person Yes, that bit. France still cannot extradite its citizens, but it can meet its obligations to its partners by prosecuting and incarcerating someone within France.
manquer 6y ago
Extradition treaty does not mean automatic extradition and is not limited to its own citizens.[1] It just means there is a framework for granting a request. There are two types list treaties and dual crime. Dual crime means it has to be crime in both countries, list treaty mean applies to only specific lists of crimes There are other restrictions that could be limiting, some countries won't extradite if the death penality is a possibility, some will not extradite its citizen's but will do visitors or residents etc. As with all deals, there will be always some other items in play while the treaty was negotiated and signed, recognizing or supporting the other country's claim, trade agreements, tariff reduction etc. Depending on the size of the partner the deal will be favourable or not. [1] For example Assange is Australian in UK being extradited to the U.S.
btilly 6y ago
The USA does extradite its citizens to other countries. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_extradition_treaties https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_extradit... has a list of countries that the USA can extradite to, and they reciprocate. The USA just happens to be more aggressive about seeking extradition than most.
- toyg 6y ago
  > The USA just happens to be more aggressive about seeking extradition than most The USA has taken an expansionist view to the definition of jurisdiction, particularly for network-related activity. In short, they basically claim jurisdiction everywhere. That's something that very few other countries can realistically try to pull off without people laughing in their face, and its success is entirely due to might.
retrac 6y ago
The US routinely extradites its own citizens with countries it has extradition treaties with. Canada is the most obvious example, and literally hundreds of Americans are deported to Canada to stand trial for alleged offences in that country every year. Very rarely, it does become political.
AniseAbyss 6y ago
The only ones who can stand up the US and win is China- as some poor Canadian diplomat is findidng out.

athms 6y ago

> The unfortunate thing is that copyright is treated as criminal rather than civil (in the US)... Only if the infringement is for financial gain, otherwise the infringement is treated as a civil matter. Also, the government must show the act was willful. Whether the infringement is a treated as a misdemeanor or felony is dependent on certain thresholds set in the statute.