6 ms·

Not everyone who consumes drugs, "hard" or otherwise has an addiction issue or needs to seek help, though of course imprisonment is especially cruel when it tar

Not everyone who consumes drugs, "hard" or otherwise has an addiction issue or needs to seek help, though of course imprisonment is especially cruel when it targets those who do.

sneak 6y ago
[Edit: This comment was an erroneous reply when I misread the comment to which I was replying, and is now removed.]
- baldfat 6y ago
  People view LSD as a non-addiction drug because it only works bi-weekly is the argument. Drugs legal and illegal might be a ticket item BUT the health issues are still the same, even if they are "non-addictive."
  - scoopdewoop 6y ago
    Baseless Anecdote: I once met a man that claimed he took acid more often than that in the 70s. He said he would get intravenous B vitamin supplements to trip more often. not really arguing anything, I just found his story fascinating.
- murbard2 6y ago
  Which part?
GordonS 6y ago
You're right, some people simply enjoy occasionally consuming drugs. It's not much different to people consuming alcohol really, the only real differences are alcohol is generally more socially accepted, and that alcohol is generally considered to be more harmful to society. If there was a guaranteed safe supply chain for recreational drugs that are currently illegal, things would be a lot safer too.
- CydeWeys 6y ago
  > and that alcohol is generally considered to be more harmful to society. Alcohol is definitely not more harmful to society than most prescription opioids, tobacco, meth, heroin, PCP, etc. The harm of each drug needs to be assessed on a per capita by user basis.
  - saiya-jin 6y ago
    Its incredibly dangerous because of its social acceptance. I don't see a difference between heroin and alcohol addicts, they are both desperate souls and mere shadows of their potential. Countless families are destroyed because of alcohol. Family violence. Drunk driving. Per capita, back home, and in many many places like russia, it is by far the deadliest substance. Because its legal and +-accepted.
  - mam2 6y ago
    No its on the addict / per user. Its not because almost no one takes heroin and that it kis no one that its not dangerous. How dumb is that reasoning..
  - GordonS 6y ago
    There have been studies showing that it is the most harmful drug to society, including Professor Nutt's rather famous 2010 Lancet paper. The fact that alcohol is legal and generally socially acceptable of course means that it's also the most consumed recreational drug by far, which no doubt contributes - but it can't be denied that alcohol is addictive, and alcoholism is a huge problem.
- throwaway894345 6y ago
  > It's not much different to people consuming alcohol really, the only real differences are alcohol is generally more socially accepted, and that alcohol is generally considered to be more harmful to society I would amend your analogy: "people comsuming alcohol to get drunk". Lots of people enjoy a glass of wine or a beer or sipping whiskey or whatever, not because it makes them drunk, but because they enjoy the flavor (e.g., wine pairings, etc). I'm pretty sure almost everyone who does drugs does so to get high. Note that I'm not arguing that alcohol is better than drugs, only that I think this distinction is important.
unethical_ban 6y ago
There are certain drugs that simply should not be encouraged by legality. Heroin and meth, for example. Incredibly toxic, highly and immediately addictive, and easy to overdose. There are drugs that, if you use them, you should be encouraged not to.
- Svperstar 6y ago
  >There are drugs that, if you use them, you should be encouraged not to. Yes but how does throwing someone in jail and giving them a felony record thus destroying their life help?
  - throwaway_pdp09 6y ago
    I don't think the poster is of this kind but some people want to label other people as 'bad' and watch them get hurt. Prison for drugs is one way.
  - ogre_codes 6y ago
    Exactly. There are drugs (crack cocaine, bath salts, maybe meth) where I think dealing should have severe penalties, but most of the people who are using these drugs are doing so because they are already struggling with life issues. Putting them in prison is almost certain to cost taxpayers a ton of money and utterly destroy that person's life.
  - unethical_ban 6y ago
    I didn't say that. Rather, that decriminalizing is good for some, but I'm glad we haven't legalized all of them.
- LorenPechtel 6y ago
  Lets look at heroin a little more carefully. Incredibly toxic? Hardly--it actually has a quite good safety profile when used as intended. Highly and immediately addictive? About 5 weeks ago I had a close chemical cousin of heroin. 3 times in fact. Addicted? I never felt the slightest desire for it once the cause of the pain was gone and I certainly didn't like what it did to my digestive system. (Morphine, given by a doctor for a kidney stone. Heroin is basically two morphine molecules stuck together.) Easy to overdose? The extremely limited medical use of heroin means we don't have good data, so lets look at morphine instead as it should be similar. The therapeutic index is 70. (This is the ratio between the proper dose and the dose that might kill, the higher the number the better.) For comparison, the therapeutic index for acetaminophen is 3--and yet it's over the counter! Heroin overdoses are common because of two issues: 1) Unknown purity. Users deliberately go close to the limits to get the biggest high, if they get heroin with a higher purity than they expect they can go over the edge. In a world where you bought your heroin from a pharmacy rather than the street such deaths would pretty much not happen. 2) Jail. Someone has been in jail for a while and not using, they get out, they take what they're used to taking--but now they aren't habituated. Now the dose is lethal. This one could certainly be reduced by having a required class for all druggies about to be released from jail--explain the problem and warn them that their usual dose is probably now a lethal dose.

Not everyone who consumes drugs, "hard" or otherwise has an addiction issue or needs to seek help, though of course imprisonment is especially cruel when it targets those who do.

sneak 6y ago

[Edit: This comment was an erroneous reply when I misread the comment to which I was replying, and is now removed.]

baldfat 6y ago
People view LSD as a non-addiction drug because it only works bi-weekly is the argument. Drugs legal and illegal might be a ticket item BUT the health issues are still the same, even if they are "non-addictive."
- scoopdewoop 6y ago
  Baseless Anecdote: I once met a man that claimed he took acid more often than that in the 70s. He said he would get intravenous B vitamin supplements to trip more often. not really arguing anything, I just found his story fascinating.
murbard2 6y ago
Which part?

GordonS 6y ago

You're right, some people simply enjoy occasionally consuming drugs. It's not much different to people consuming alcohol really, the only real differences are alcohol is generally more socially accepted, and that alcohol is generally considered to be more harmful to society. If there was a guaranteed safe supply chain for recreational drugs that are currently illegal, things would be a lot safer too.

CydeWeys 6y ago
> and that alcohol is generally considered to be more harmful to society. Alcohol is definitely not more harmful to society than most prescription opioids, tobacco, meth, heroin, PCP, etc. The harm of each drug needs to be assessed on a per capita by user basis.
- saiya-jin 6y ago
  Its incredibly dangerous because of its social acceptance. I don't see a difference between heroin and alcohol addicts, they are both desperate souls and mere shadows of their potential. Countless families are destroyed because of alcohol. Family violence. Drunk driving. Per capita, back home, and in many many places like russia, it is by far the deadliest substance. Because its legal and +-accepted.
- mam2 6y ago
  No its on the addict / per user. Its not because almost no one takes heroin and that it kis no one that its not dangerous. How dumb is that reasoning..
- GordonS 6y ago
  There have been studies showing that it is the most harmful drug to society, including Professor Nutt's rather famous 2010 Lancet paper. The fact that alcohol is legal and generally socially acceptable of course means that it's also the most consumed recreational drug by far, which no doubt contributes - but it can't be denied that alcohol is addictive, and alcoholism is a huge problem.
throwaway894345 6y ago
> It's not much different to people consuming alcohol really, the only real differences are alcohol is generally more socially accepted, and that alcohol is generally considered to be more harmful to society I would amend your analogy: "people comsuming alcohol to get drunk". Lots of people enjoy a glass of wine or a beer or sipping whiskey or whatever, not because it makes them drunk, but because they enjoy the flavor (e.g., wine pairings, etc). I'm pretty sure almost everyone who does drugs does so to get high. Note that I'm not arguing that alcohol is better than drugs, only that I think this distinction is important.

unethical_ban 6y ago

There are certain drugs that simply should not be encouraged by legality. Heroin and meth, for example. Incredibly toxic, highly and immediately addictive, and easy to overdose. There are drugs that, if you use them, you should be encouraged not to.

Svperstar 6y ago
>There are drugs that, if you use them, you should be encouraged not to. Yes but how does throwing someone in jail and giving them a felony record thus destroying their life help?
- throwaway_pdp09 6y ago
  I don't think the poster is of this kind but some people want to label other people as 'bad' and watch them get hurt. Prison for drugs is one way.
- ogre_codes 6y ago
  Exactly. There are drugs (crack cocaine, bath salts, maybe meth) where I think dealing should have severe penalties, but most of the people who are using these drugs are doing so because they are already struggling with life issues. Putting them in prison is almost certain to cost taxpayers a ton of money and utterly destroy that person's life.
- unethical_ban 6y ago
  I didn't say that. Rather, that decriminalizing is good for some, but I'm glad we haven't legalized all of them.
LorenPechtel 6y ago
Lets look at heroin a little more carefully. Incredibly toxic? Hardly--it actually has a quite good safety profile when used as intended. Highly and immediately addictive? About 5 weeks ago I had a close chemical cousin of heroin. 3 times in fact. Addicted? I never felt the slightest desire for it once the cause of the pain was gone and I certainly didn't like what it did to my digestive system. (Morphine, given by a doctor for a kidney stone. Heroin is basically two morphine molecules stuck together.) Easy to overdose? The extremely limited medical use of heroin means we don't have good data, so lets look at morphine instead as it should be similar. The therapeutic index is 70. (This is the ratio between the proper dose and the dose that might kill, the higher the number the better.) For comparison, the therapeutic index for acetaminophen is 3--and yet it's over the counter! Heroin overdoses are common because of two issues: 1) Unknown purity. Users deliberately go close to the limits to get the biggest high, if they get heroin with a higher purity than they expect they can go over the edge. In a world where you bought your heroin from a pharmacy rather than the street such deaths would pretty much not happen. 2) Jail. Someone has been in jail for a while and not using, they get out, they take what they're used to taking--but now they aren't habituated. Now the dose is lethal. This one could certainly be reduced by having a required class for all druggies about to be released from jail--explain the problem and warn them that their usual dose is probably now a lethal dose.