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Superficially speaking, he defrauded a US bank of $70k ($5k of which he transferred to his bank account). Yes, he disclosed exactly how he did it to the bank.
by cosmie 6y ago
Superficially speaking, he defrauded a US bank of $70k ($5k of which he transferred to his bank account).
Yes, he disclosed exactly how he did it to the bank. Yes, he returned it all. Yes, he had no intent to keep it. And yes, he still defrauded them in the process. Yes, he had permission to do so. But permission doesn't always prevent situations from going awry, even if it can help clear things up after the fact.
If you walk into a physical bank and notice a potential security issue, point out the potential security issue to the teller, come back to exploit that potential security issue just to see if you can, succeed and make off with $70k, then bring it all back in and walk the bank manager through how you robbed his bank, he's still going to call the cops on you. Or maybe you spoke to him before and got permission, but his communication to corporate after the fact gets misconstrued/misunderstood and someone else calls the cops.
Closing all of the accounts like they did was a crap reaction, but he could have just as easily been hand delivered an arrest warrant by an FBI agent for bank robbery and fraud if someone internally decided to take the position that what he did was analogous to the above scenario. And it may have just as easily occurred due to some internal miscommunication/misunderstanding by a non-technical person or being flagged by some type of automation/reporting, rather than deliberately taking such a stance.
That's where involving a lawyer would have been valuable. It may not have protected him from the consequences that did occur, since they could close his accounts for whatever reason they wanted. But a lawyer would have provided greater assurance against substantially worse outcomes, by ensuring more drastic outcomes were identified and addressed/mitigated upfront. And potentially saved his accounts from getting closed - the decrease in his cumulative credit limit plus closure of such long-lived credit cards translates into real economic harm due to the likely impact on his credit score. I could see a lawyer being able to use that fact somehow to persuade Chase that it was not in their best interests to take such an action.
Law enforcement - I'd leave that up to the lawyer. As another user commented, your lawyer is explicitly employed to protect your interests. If involving law enforcement furthers that aim, they'll tell you. If involving law enforcement is detrimental to that aim, they'll tell you. So consult with several first, hire one second, and let them direct what happens after. If what they do/recommend ends up being incredibly stupid, you at least have their malpractice insurance to appropriately compensate you for their stupidity. But you have no such insurance to compensate you for your own.
- ballenf 6y agoThe article says: > Once I had permission quickly made a proof of concept ... So unless you want to accuse him of lying, there's no fraud here. And the fact that Chase didn't file a police report makes me convinced there was nothing remotely illegal about his actions.
- cosmie 6y agoHe mentioned having permission, but not by whom nor any assurances that said permission was appropriately disseminated to all relevant parties internally or appropriate lines of communication established to someone with the authority to expeditiously intercede in the case of issues. As I said, such a situation could have occurred due to a miscommunication/misunderstanding, rather than taking a deliberate stance to prosecute him. A team (or member on said team) or some automated system unaware of that permission could have flagged the fraud and involved the authorities. Communication silos are a fact of big businesses. Politics and power tripping executives are too, who may decide whoever gave such permission didn't have the authority and push ahead anyway for whatever reason. And inflexible legacy systems are too, which may trip some automated fraud detection system that automatically triggers a legal reaction. The charges may have ultimately been dropped when everything got sorted out, or a judge could have dismissed the case based on the permission he was given (if the situation got to that point). But that's not for the law enforcement agent serving your warrant to decide, his job is just to bring you in. And in the event that happens, it's far better for your lawyer to already be prepared on how to address the situation than only getting them involved at that stage.
- compiler-guy 6y agoWhether or not Chase filed a police report has nothing to do with the legality of his actions. There are lots of reasons to file or not file: Publicity, hassle, likelihood of recovery, and on. It seems like he took great pains to keep it legal, but the presence or absence of a police report means nothing.
- criddell 6y ago> he still defrauded them in the process No he didn't. Intent / mens rea matters. He established a pretty solid record of prior communication about what his intent was.