4 ms·

I've been testing out both the 8GB Pi 4 and the new Pi 400 overclocked to 2.2 GHz. For many things, both are perfectly adequate. But the slight bit of missing

I've been testing out both the 8GB Pi 4 and the new Pi 400 overclocked to 2.2 GHz. For many things, both are perfectly adequate. But the slight bit of missing performance (compared to a $300+ low-end celeron or AMD laptop) becomes apparent when you do things like make a video full screen (takes 3-10 seconds), scroll on a JS-heavy page, or have a number of apps open at the same time and switch between them while one of them is doing some heavy processing. It's definitely tolerable and for the price the Pi is a great little computer. Also as soon as I get a few more CMs, I'm going to run some of my web stuff on them from my home since they're silent, power efficient, and adequate now unlike previous generations. But it's not necessarily a standard more expensive desktop replacement for the majority of people yet. As it stands today I think this would be a great computer for a family, a kid learning how to type and use a computer, that sort of thing. Additionally, it would be an excellent computer for those who can't afford a $300+ laptop but already have a TV or can pick up a $40 monitor off Craigslist.

jacobush 6y ago
One of these things stand out. Making a video should take one or two frames. (Milliseconds.) Something is very wrong with the state of software and GUI. There is nothing inherently slow about making a video full screen, but I understand there is something in todays software pipeline making this a bottleneck.
- kzrdude 6y ago
  The Rpi4 plays 720p video full screen at 5% cpu usage (because it has hardware decoding support) - using omxplayer. The hard part is for the hardware decoding support to be enabled in the right places and it seems like kodi is the only place (mpv, vlc don't do it by default)
  - kllrnohj 6y ago
    The other missing piece for the transition to fullscreen is a robust compositor API, such that the same compositional layer can just have its size changed rather than going from app-compositor to system-composited in a new window. Something like, say, Wayland. <insert that whole debate/debacle here>
- Cthulhu_ 6y ago
  Have you considered that the compression algorithms for video are nontrivial? I mean I'm sure there can be dedicated hardware for video decoding, but would you put that in a low-cost, low-energy entry-level CPU where you want to shave off as much cost in favor of flexibility? The Pi is not primarily intended for media consumption. That said, for a similar price to a RPI + display you can get a cheap tablet that will (should?) have dedicated video hardware.
  - pjc50 6y ago
    The original Pi CPU was intended for media consumption in set-top-boxes; it was a huge video core with a small ARM on the side.
  - CyberDildonics 6y ago
    It has had hardware video decompression for multiple revisions.
    - dividuum 6y ago
      In fact it had H264 decoding in all revisions, optional unlockable MPEG2 and VC1(?) up to and including all Pi3 models and H265 since the Pi4.
- thescriptkiddie 6y ago
  It absolutely should only take a couple of frames to make a video fullscreen, but to put things into perspective, on my 2015 macbook it takes 3-4 seconds to toggle fullscreen on youtube, and my much more powerful linux desktop isn't much faster.
throwaway894345 6y ago
How do you actually run compute modules (I assume that's your 'CM' abbreviation above)? Do you need a custom "rack" or something? If so, where do you get them?
- kingosticks 6y ago
  Either design your own carrier board or use https://www.raspberrypi.org/products/compute-module-4-io-board/?resellerType=home https://www.raspberrypi.org/products/compute-module-4-io-boa...
  - throwaway894345 6y ago
    Bummer. I would pay good money for a single board that let me mount 4-8 of these guys. I'm aware that the Turing Pi 2 will supposedly do this, but it's still in development.
    - deleted 6y ago
      [deleted]
    - geerlingguy 6y ago
      The CM4 is still a very new product, I know of at least a few other projects that are still on the drawing board. Give it time, I think we'll see some creative adaptations. For now I'm just using the IO board, and I have a couple more on the way, and I'll rack them up using M2.5 spacers.
      - throwaway894345 6y ago
        Can you list the other projects? What are the advantages of racking CM4s + IO boards vs racking RPI4s? Is it just the extra bit of compute power? In my mind, the biggest draw to the CMs is the prospect of putting them all on one board without having to run cables to each, especially since there aren't multiport USB-C power supplies available that can power multiple RPI4s. Another advantage is the prospect of faster SSD communication.
908B64B197 6y ago
The regular Pi 4 can run at 2.2 GHz? With external cooling I assume.
- WrtCdEvrydy 6y ago
  Pi 400 is the one with the keyboard and has built in soft-cooling. I wonder what a Raspberry Pi overclocking competition would do.
  - geerlingguy 6y ago
    So far no matter what I've tried I can't get beyond 2200 MHz.
  - kllrnohj 6y ago
    Look into top end GPU or CPU overclocking on the desktop side of things if you want to know where RPI overclocking would end up. It's going to be the same general thing - get it as cold as possible and ram as much power & voltage as possible as cleanly as possible. It wouldn't end up looking anything like a Raspberry Pi at the end of the day, though, as the first step would be replacing the entire power delivery system (see for example products like https://www.evga.com/articles/01140/evga-epower-v/ https://www.evga.com/articles/01140/evga-epower-v/ on the extreme GPU side of things)
patrec 6y ago
> I've been testing out both the 8GB Pi 4 and the new Pi 400 overclocked to 2.2 GHz. For many things, both are perfectly adequate. I wonder if I'm doing something wrong. I have a 4GiB pi 4B and have found it laggy enough to be basically completely unsuitable for even the most lightweight interactive computing tasks, e.g. basic (ad filtered) web browsing. I think there might have been a bit of intermittent laginess in typing into an xterm in a bare bones tiling window manager with basically nothing else going on, but I'd have to check again. After the initial hickup on full-screening, did the video play back properly for you? For me it was not possible to play 480p youtube videos. All in all this was much worse than I expected from a quad core machine with 4GiB. Now I haven't got the fastest micro-SD card, and I'm running with Ubuntu 20.04 64bit server rather than raspian, but is this just what I should expect, or should a different configuration of the 4GiB 4B handle light web surfing and fullscreen video playback?
- 5436436347 6y ago
  Ive read multiple reports that the Ubuntu distrivution is significantly slower than the Raspian bundle. I dont know the root cause, but you could check out the stock image for a comparison yourself

jacobush 6y ago

One of these things stand out. Making a video should take one or two frames. (Milliseconds.) Something is very wrong with the state of software and GUI. There is nothing inherently slow about making a video full screen, but I understand there is something in todays software pipeline making this a bottleneck.

kzrdude 6y ago
The Rpi4 plays 720p video full screen at 5% cpu usage (because it has hardware decoding support) - using omxplayer. The hard part is for the hardware decoding support to be enabled in the right places and it seems like kodi is the only place (mpv, vlc don't do it by default)
- kllrnohj 6y ago
  The other missing piece for the transition to fullscreen is a robust compositor API, such that the same compositional layer can just have its size changed rather than going from app-compositor to system-composited in a new window. Something like, say, Wayland. <insert that whole debate/debacle here>
Cthulhu_ 6y ago
Have you considered that the compression algorithms for video are nontrivial? I mean I'm sure there can be dedicated hardware for video decoding, but would you put that in a low-cost, low-energy entry-level CPU where you want to shave off as much cost in favor of flexibility? The Pi is not primarily intended for media consumption. That said, for a similar price to a RPI + display you can get a cheap tablet that will (should?) have dedicated video hardware.
- pjc50 6y ago
  The original Pi CPU was intended for media consumption in set-top-boxes; it was a huge video core with a small ARM on the side.
- CyberDildonics 6y ago
  It has had hardware video decompression for multiple revisions.
  - dividuum 6y ago
    In fact it had H264 decoding in all revisions, optional unlockable MPEG2 and VC1(?) up to and including all Pi3 models and H265 since the Pi4.
thescriptkiddie 6y ago
It absolutely should only take a couple of frames to make a video fullscreen, but to put things into perspective, on my 2015 macbook it takes 3-4 seconds to toggle fullscreen on youtube, and my much more powerful linux desktop isn't much faster.

throwaway894345 6y ago

How do you actually run compute modules (I assume that's your 'CM' abbreviation above)? Do you need a custom "rack" or something? If so, where do you get them?

kingosticks 6y ago
Either design your own carrier board or use https://www.raspberrypi.org/products/compute-module-4-io-board/?resellerType=home https://www.raspberrypi.org/products/compute-module-4-io-boa...
- throwaway894345 6y ago
  Bummer. I would pay good money for a single board that let me mount 4-8 of these guys. I'm aware that the Turing Pi 2 will supposedly do this, but it's still in development.
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
  - geerlingguy 6y ago
    The CM4 is still a very new product, I know of at least a few other projects that are still on the drawing board. Give it time, I think we'll see some creative adaptations. For now I'm just using the IO board, and I have a couple more on the way, and I'll rack them up using M2.5 spacers.
    - throwaway894345 6y ago
      Can you list the other projects? What are the advantages of racking CM4s + IO boards vs racking RPI4s? Is it just the extra bit of compute power? In my mind, the biggest draw to the CMs is the prospect of putting them all on one board without having to run cables to each, especially since there aren't multiport USB-C power supplies available that can power multiple RPI4s. Another advantage is the prospect of faster SSD communication.

908B64B197 6y ago

The regular Pi 4 can run at 2.2 GHz? With external cooling I assume.

WrtCdEvrydy 6y ago
Pi 400 is the one with the keyboard and has built in soft-cooling. I wonder what a Raspberry Pi overclocking competition would do.
- geerlingguy 6y ago
  So far no matter what I've tried I can't get beyond 2200 MHz.
- kllrnohj 6y ago
  Look into top end GPU or CPU overclocking on the desktop side of things if you want to know where RPI overclocking would end up. It's going to be the same general thing - get it as cold as possible and ram as much power & voltage as possible as cleanly as possible. It wouldn't end up looking anything like a Raspberry Pi at the end of the day, though, as the first step would be replacing the entire power delivery system (see for example products like https://www.evga.com/articles/01140/evga-epower-v/ https://www.evga.com/articles/01140/evga-epower-v/ on the extreme GPU side of things)

patrec 6y ago

> I've been testing out both the 8GB Pi 4 and the new Pi 400 overclocked to 2.2 GHz. For many things, both are perfectly adequate. I wonder if I'm doing something wrong. I have a 4GiB pi 4B and have found it laggy enough to be basically completely unsuitable for even the most lightweight interactive computing tasks, e.g. basic (ad filtered) web browsing. I think there might have been a bit of intermittent laginess in typing into an xterm in a bare bones tiling window manager with basically nothing else going on, but I'd have to check again. After the initial hickup on full-screening, did the video play back properly for you? For me it was not possible to play 480p youtube videos. All in all this was much worse than I expected from a quad core machine with 4GiB. Now I haven't got the fastest micro-SD card, and I'm running with Ubuntu 20.04 64bit server rather than raspian, but is this just what I should expect, or should a different configuration of the 4GiB 4B handle light web surfing and fullscreen video playback?

5436436347 6y ago
Ive read multiple reports that the Ubuntu distrivution is significantly slower than the Raspian bundle. I dont know the root cause, but you could check out the stock image for a comparison yourself