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> This request wasn't well-received by developers, many of whom retaliated by posting copies of the code. Yesterday, things went from bad to worse when a user w

> This request wasn't well-received by developers, many of whom retaliated by posting copies of the code. Yesterday, things went from bad to worse when a user with the name 'F* T RIAA' uploaded three MP3s of the songs the RIAA mentioned in its takedown notice RIAA couldn't care less. As far as I understand, they practically are just a team of lawyers whose job is to attack whoever they can reach, take whatever they can down and collect money when possible. They hardly even care about the actual recording business, let alone about how do people feel about them.

michelb 6y ago
Indeed. This just plays into their hands.
- mabbo 6y ago
  Not necessarily. Remember what happened when Digg tried to ban anyone from posting the 09F9 number because it was a secret key to some DVD thing? The users revolted so hard that the people managing the site gave up and let it stand. Then again... who remembers Digg?
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
  - dwild 6y ago
    You really think Github will giveup respecting DMCA and copyright infringement? Your example is nice, but it's about the copyright stand of a number... it's much more grey than respecting an actual DMCA notice and being aware of actual copyrighted content on your platform. I don't think so... instead what I expect would most probably happen is that they automate it even more, which will suck even more. We got enough damage already from Youtube doing it...
    - wolfgke 6y ago
      Of course Microsoft (the company behind Github) will not give up respecting DMCA and copyright infringement. The question rather is: how much will developers continue to respect Microsoft?
      - colejohnson66 6y ago
        You’re asking people to not respect Microsoft because they’re doing something they’re legally mandated to do. If Microsoft takes the route many have argued for here (namely, reject the DMCA request as it’s invalid) and the DMCA request ends up being found valid in the courts, Microsoft loses their DMCA safe harbor protections and open themselves up to multi-million dollar lawsuits. Sure, if they’re right, then they’re in the clear, but when their business is at risk of being killed if they’re wrong, they’re going to err on the side of caution. It’s easy to stand at a distance and mock those who do something we disagree with, but when you’re actually in that situation, your tune is going to change very quickly. A bad example, but if you’re getting mugged, sure, you could fight back, but your life is on the line.
        AnthonyMouse 6y ago
        The safe harbor under Section 512 applies to takedown requests for content copyrighted by the person issuing the notice. I don't think there is anybody asserting that the RIAA is the author of youtube-dl and thereby eligible to make a claim under that section. I would also be curious to see you cite a case that says that refusing a takedown notice in one case costs anyone the Section 512 safe harbor in all other cases where they continue to execute takedown notices, since that would be oppressive and ridiculous.
        deleted 6y ago
        [deleted]
  - squarefoot 6y ago
    > Then again... who remembers Digg? I do. It was pretty good, then they destroyed it, de facto paving the way for Reddit's success.
    - skyyler 6y ago
      I hope something replaces reddit soon. The creeping features are beginning to rot.
      - tt433 6y ago
        Completely off topic but there's no way to get to r/friends from the mobile app. It's pathetic.
        aaron_m04 6y ago
        There are third party apps that allow you to that, and many other things. I am aware of two open source ones: RedReader and Slide (both Android).
      - at-fates-hands 6y ago
        The last redesign that nobody wanted did it for me, that was the last straw. The mobile app was horrendous as well - from all accounts it sounds like nothing has changed. But yes, I agree, we need a replacement soon.
        pmiller2 6y ago
        They haven't removed old reddit yet. I believe you can set old reddit as your default in your profile still.
      - heavyset_go 6y ago
        Once Reddit finishes its transformation into an meme image and video board, the current incarnation of its platform will go the way of forums and newsgroups. Over time, Facebook groups and Twitter have become the de facto discussion hubs for communities that I've been a part of for years. Those platforms make it hard to not reveal your true identity online, and you have to give Facebook and Twitter your phone number just to register. Facebook will even ask users to verify their identities with their driver's licenses. At least for me, this causes a chilling effect on my online participation in these communities. For example, I won't talk about politics in my neighborhood's Facebook group because I don't want to be harassed. I recently witnessed a single mother get harassed because she respectfully disagreed with someone's politics in the group. People started posting pictures of her kids, putting them into crude memes, and the mayor went through public records to find her full name and address.
  - julianlam 6y ago
    What an interesting read! https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/AACS_encryption_key_controversy https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/AACS_encryption_key_controve...
- bogwog 6y ago
  Not necessarily. If this situation goes viral and leads to an overall increase in piracy, someone at RIAA will have to answer for it.
  - corobo 6y ago
    The question being "Hooray, we can bill our clients more. Piracy is back! Who's name is going on this bonus here then?"
    - toomuchtodo 6y ago
      How do you optimize to maximize billing while minimizing effective takedowns? If I recall, you could host youtube-dl like repos in the Netherlands and Turkey on VMs running hosted git, and they'd be out of reach of the copyright cartel.
      - DJHenk 6y ago
        That is not hard, as the actions are fueled by greed and depend on spreading fear. It has nothing to do with rational thinking. At least not in the way an average consumer would assume. Copyright cartels live by bullying. It is not important how much of the takedowns are actually effective, as long as they get to dominate the news with their lawsuits. Because only that will already deter al lot of people. Just drag everything on forever and have an occasional success that you can trump on every news channel. That is enough to spread fear. And that works also in other countries, like The Netherlands, because they will have some representative organization there (Brein, in this case) that is happy to take on the role of the bully for a small amount of cash.
        vagrantJin 6y ago
        > Because only that will already deter alot of people. Thing about software is it doesn't need a lot of people. Just a handful.
        Nasrudith 6y ago
austincheney 6y ago
This sounds like gossip. The word on the street is...
- sp332 6y ago
  Well, that's partly by design on their part. The RIAA exists to take heat off the record labels while carrying out their enforcement actions.
sp332 6y ago
Making developers afraid to work on youtube-dl is a much more powerful move than taking down a few songs that were already available for free on YouTube.
- wolfgke 6y ago
  If developers are afraid, they will be tempted to program a solution for censorship-resistant hosting of open source software that additionally allows to contribute anonymously (not just pseudonymously).
  - skyde 6y ago
    the problem is lot of the incentive to contribute for free is the name recognition. Lot of dev see it as a way to show what they can do (portfolio) because that can’t share the code they produce at work
    - wolfgke 6y ago
      Is is good for name recognition if you contribute to software of somewhat dubious legal status such as youtube-dl?
      - sebastien_b 6y ago
        “Dubious legal status” defined by whom? All GitHub got was a take down request (which they were required to act on), not proof of anything being illegal (which requires a court case to prove)
        mr_toad 6y ago
        > Dubious legal status” defined by whom? A potential employer.
        sebastien_b 6y ago
        A potential employer doing that will open themselves up to some serious legal problems. "Oh, you committed code to a repo I consider dubious though nothing proven... hmmm not sure I'll hire you". "Oh, you shop at a store run by a non-white person.... hmmm not sure I'll hire you". "Oh, you follow a religion, but I'm atheist... hmmm not sure I'll hire you". ... the list goes on.
shmerl 6y ago
That's typical mobster mentality. Quite similar to patent trolls.
pankajdoharey 6y ago
Can someone explain what is so hard here to go ahead and host your own Git repository? I mean how hard is it to run git instaweb --httpd=webrick Also there are tons of options GNU Savannah, Gogs,Gitea , Git Bucket ...
- m463 6y ago
  It is very easy to run a git repository. However you (and your ISP) might receive DMCA notices and have to respond or at least deal with legal notices yourself.
- mr_toad 6y ago
  It’s trivial. What is hard is managing the identity/ authentication process of large numbers of developers. Even harder is actually covering your costs, i.e. running a going concern.
- alfalfasprout 6y ago
  Github offers far more than a git repo. PR reviews, issues, etc. are important for many projects. Linux gets by with LKML but that's a nonstarter for most people now.
  - pankajdoharey 6y ago
    Linux kernel manages themselves pretty much without github.

michelb 6y ago

Indeed. This just plays into their hands.

mabbo 6y ago
Not necessarily. Remember what happened when Digg tried to ban anyone from posting the 09F9 number because it was a secret key to some DVD thing? The users revolted so hard that the people managing the site gave up and let it stand. Then again... who remembers Digg?
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- dwild 6y ago
  You really think Github will giveup respecting DMCA and copyright infringement? Your example is nice, but it's about the copyright stand of a number... it's much more grey than respecting an actual DMCA notice and being aware of actual copyrighted content on your platform. I don't think so... instead what I expect would most probably happen is that they automate it even more, which will suck even more. We got enough damage already from Youtube doing it...
  - wolfgke 6y ago
    Of course Microsoft (the company behind Github) will not give up respecting DMCA and copyright infringement. The question rather is: how much will developers continue to respect Microsoft?
    - colejohnson66 6y ago
      You’re asking people to not respect Microsoft because they’re doing something they’re legally mandated to do. If Microsoft takes the route many have argued for here (namely, reject the DMCA request as it’s invalid) and the DMCA request ends up being found valid in the courts, Microsoft loses their DMCA safe harbor protections and open themselves up to multi-million dollar lawsuits. Sure, if they’re right, then they’re in the clear, but when their business is at risk of being killed if they’re wrong, they’re going to err on the side of caution. It’s easy to stand at a distance and mock those who do something we disagree with, but when you’re actually in that situation, your tune is going to change very quickly. A bad example, but if you’re getting mugged, sure, you could fight back, but your life is on the line.
      - AnthonyMouse 6y ago
        The safe harbor under Section 512 applies to takedown requests for content copyrighted by the person issuing the notice. I don't think there is anybody asserting that the RIAA is the author of youtube-dl and thereby eligible to make a claim under that section. I would also be curious to see you cite a case that says that refusing a takedown notice in one case costs anyone the Section 512 safe harbor in all other cases where they continue to execute takedown notices, since that would be oppressive and ridiculous.
        deleted 6y ago
        [deleted]
- squarefoot 6y ago
  > Then again... who remembers Digg? I do. It was pretty good, then they destroyed it, de facto paving the way for Reddit's success.
  - skyyler 6y ago
    I hope something replaces reddit soon. The creeping features are beginning to rot.
    - tt433 6y ago
      Completely off topic but there's no way to get to r/friends from the mobile app. It's pathetic.
      - aaron_m04 6y ago
        There are third party apps that allow you to that, and many other things. I am aware of two open source ones: RedReader and Slide (both Android).
    - at-fates-hands 6y ago
      The last redesign that nobody wanted did it for me, that was the last straw. The mobile app was horrendous as well - from all accounts it sounds like nothing has changed. But yes, I agree, we need a replacement soon.
      - pmiller2 6y ago
        They haven't removed old reddit yet. I believe you can set old reddit as your default in your profile still.
    - heavyset_go 6y ago
      Once Reddit finishes its transformation into an meme image and video board, the current incarnation of its platform will go the way of forums and newsgroups. Over time, Facebook groups and Twitter have become the de facto discussion hubs for communities that I've been a part of for years. Those platforms make it hard to not reveal your true identity online, and you have to give Facebook and Twitter your phone number just to register. Facebook will even ask users to verify their identities with their driver's licenses. At least for me, this causes a chilling effect on my online participation in these communities. For example, I won't talk about politics in my neighborhood's Facebook group because I don't want to be harassed. I recently witnessed a single mother get harassed because she respectfully disagreed with someone's politics in the group. People started posting pictures of her kids, putting them into crude memes, and the mayor went through public records to find her full name and address.
- julianlam 6y ago
  What an interesting read! https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/AACS_encryption_key_controversy https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/AACS_encryption_key_controve...
bogwog 6y ago
Not necessarily. If this situation goes viral and leads to an overall increase in piracy, someone at RIAA will have to answer for it.
- corobo 6y ago
  The question being "Hooray, we can bill our clients more. Piracy is back! Who's name is going on this bonus here then?"
  - toomuchtodo 6y ago
    How do you optimize to maximize billing while minimizing effective takedowns? If I recall, you could host youtube-dl like repos in the Netherlands and Turkey on VMs running hosted git, and they'd be out of reach of the copyright cartel.
    - DJHenk 6y ago
      That is not hard, as the actions are fueled by greed and depend on spreading fear. It has nothing to do with rational thinking. At least not in the way an average consumer would assume. Copyright cartels live by bullying. It is not important how much of the takedowns are actually effective, as long as they get to dominate the news with their lawsuits. Because only that will already deter al lot of people. Just drag everything on forever and have an occasional success that you can trump on every news channel. That is enough to spread fear. And that works also in other countries, like The Netherlands, because they will have some representative organization there (Brein, in this case) that is happy to take on the role of the bully for a small amount of cash.
      - vagrantJin 6y ago
        > Because only that will already deter alot of people. Thing about software is it doesn't need a lot of people. Just a handful.
      - Nasrudith 6y ago

austincheney 6y ago

This sounds like gossip. The word on the street is...

sp332 6y ago
Well, that's partly by design on their part. The RIAA exists to take heat off the record labels while carrying out their enforcement actions.

sp332 6y ago

Making developers afraid to work on youtube-dl is a much more powerful move than taking down a few songs that were already available for free on YouTube.

wolfgke 6y ago
If developers are afraid, they will be tempted to program a solution for censorship-resistant hosting of open source software that additionally allows to contribute anonymously (not just pseudonymously).
- skyde 6y ago
  the problem is lot of the incentive to contribute for free is the name recognition. Lot of dev see it as a way to show what they can do (portfolio) because that can’t share the code they produce at work
  - wolfgke 6y ago
    Is is good for name recognition if you contribute to software of somewhat dubious legal status such as youtube-dl?
    - sebastien_b 6y ago
      “Dubious legal status” defined by whom? All GitHub got was a take down request (which they were required to act on), not proof of anything being illegal (which requires a court case to prove)
      - mr_toad 6y ago
        > Dubious legal status” defined by whom? A potential employer.
        sebastien_b 6y ago
        A potential employer doing that will open themselves up to some serious legal problems. "Oh, you committed code to a repo I consider dubious though nothing proven... hmmm not sure I'll hire you". "Oh, you shop at a store run by a non-white person.... hmmm not sure I'll hire you". "Oh, you follow a religion, but I'm atheist... hmmm not sure I'll hire you". ... the list goes on.

shmerl 6y ago

That's typical mobster mentality. Quite similar to patent trolls.

pankajdoharey 6y ago

Can someone explain what is so hard here to go ahead and host your own Git repository? I mean how hard is it to run git instaweb --httpd=webrick Also there are tons of options GNU Savannah, Gogs,Gitea , Git Bucket ...

m463 6y ago
It is very easy to run a git repository. However you (and your ISP) might receive DMCA notices and have to respond or at least deal with legal notices yourself.
mr_toad 6y ago
It’s trivial. What is hard is managing the identity/ authentication process of large numbers of developers. Even harder is actually covering your costs, i.e. running a going concern.
alfalfasprout 6y ago
Github offers far more than a git repo. PR reviews, issues, etc. are important for many projects. Linux gets by with LKML but that's a nonstarter for most people now.
- pankajdoharey 6y ago
  Linux kernel manages themselves pretty much without github.