4 ms·

So much opportunity wasted considering China would do more if the US also did more.

by legulere 6y ago

sethammons 6y ago
What gives you that belief?
- Ygg2 6y ago
  They have linked economies. What China makes for US they also use a version of that internally. So if US goes all electric car, China would follow suit, etc.
  - giantg2 6y ago
    So Tesla is being built in China? That's not what I've heard. In fact Tesla has shipped cars to China. Just look at the recent recall. China has their own versions of electric cars (see NIO as an example).
    - Ygg2 6y ago
      > So Tesla is being built in China? Non-sequitur. I never said about things US internally makes. Also Tesla makes like 1% of all US cars? But a lot of US imports are from China. And if a large part of those imports became "green", I doubt Chinese authorities would build non-green infra just to spite Americans and/or the World.
      - giantg2 6y ago
        You specifically mentioned electric cars in the US, of which Tesla is the largest producer. So this is a valid assumption to make. Do you have any information that would suggest a change in this model, such as GM or Ford sourcing their motors or batteries from China? What examples do you have of green tech exported from China that has found widespread adoption in China?
        Ygg2 6y ago
        > You specifically mentioned electric cars in the US, of which Tesla is the largest producer I said "So if US goes all electric car, China would follow suit, etc." I didn't say if a single company in US goes electric car, China would follow suit. I quantified it as "all/most" not "exists". > What examples do you have of green tech exported from China that has found widespread adoption in China? Not green tech specifically, but most tech exported from China is also present locally in China.
        giantg2 6y ago
        "What China makes for US they also use a version of that internally." You are implying that China would be producing the cars, or at least the primary components. But you have provided no support for this. Current production and sourcing partnerships show no evidence to support your implication. Even ICE vehicles in the US overwhelmingly have the engine and transmission built in countries other than China, with a large number being built in the US, Canada, and Mexico.
        Ygg2 6y ago
        > You are implying that China would be producing the cars, or at least the primary components. They already are. Just because US doesn't buy all components from China doesn't mean that China won't develop those components for other markets or its internal use. But electric cars are at the moment a minority in China, if US went all-in on electric cars (an assuming no tariff war with China), that would kickstart mass conversion of car manufacturing process to electric. >Even ICE vehicles in the US overwhelmingly have the engine and transmission built in countries other than China, ICE != EV Yeah, because perfecting ICE takes decades of investment. Compared to them EV are easy and China already knows how to make them. Hell, they have entire logistic lines worked out for electrical motors. https://www.economist.com/technology-quarterly/2020/01/02/china-has-never-mastered-internal-combustion-engines https://www.economist.com/technology-quarterly/2020/01/02/ch...
    - flurdy 6y ago
      Erm, yes? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Giga_Shanghai https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Giga_Shanghai
      - giantg2 6y ago
        Thanks, I didn't see that. I had only heard of the cars being shipped over (in the recent recall).
  - bluGill 6y ago
    China is able to look at the rest of the world and see trends and where they want to be. Most oil people who really look see that electric cars will have a place in the future world (as oil people they want to minimize it, but they are forced to admit there is a place for it). China doesn't have the built up oil infrastructure that the rest of the world has, and is seeing the affects of pollution in their cities. Thus it makes sense for China to adopt electric cars faster than the rest of the world: if you don't have infrastructure in place it is easier to justify building electric over oil, as opposed to US/Europe which needs to justify replacing otherwise working find oil infrastructure. If you can't be confident that you can fill your gas car on a long trip anyway you are going to prefer a gas car for those rare long trips, and so lack of charging infrastructure doesn't mean as much. This of course means more demand for electric car charging stations over gas stations and the effect can snowball into gas not being viable to use for long trips in China. The above is speculation of course. It seems reasonable, but only time will tell.
giantg2 6y ago
I highly doubt that. As others have said, China has no plans to reduce pollution until 2030 (negotiated at the accord) and is currently increasing their polluting infrastructure.
- trasz 6y ago
  Building forty nuclear power plants - which is what China is doing - won’t reduce pollution?
  - giantg2 6y ago
    I understand they are still producing coal plants. So the nuclear plants might reduce their trajectory, but overall pollution will still be up if they are producing more coal plants. Hopefully those nuclear plants will be FAST reactors or there could be concerns around the waste management or poor building practices causing pollution too.
- La1n 6y ago
  Chinese Co2 emission seem to have flattened quite a lot in the last 6 years.

So much opportunity wasted considering China would do more if the US also did more.

sethammons 6y ago

What gives you that belief?

Ygg2 6y ago
They have linked economies. What China makes for US they also use a version of that internally. So if US goes all electric car, China would follow suit, etc.
- giantg2 6y ago
  So Tesla is being built in China? That's not what I've heard. In fact Tesla has shipped cars to China. Just look at the recent recall. China has their own versions of electric cars (see NIO as an example).
  - Ygg2 6y ago
    > So Tesla is being built in China? Non-sequitur. I never said about things US internally makes. Also Tesla makes like 1% of all US cars? But a lot of US imports are from China. And if a large part of those imports became "green", I doubt Chinese authorities would build non-green infra just to spite Americans and/or the World.
    - giantg2 6y ago
      You specifically mentioned electric cars in the US, of which Tesla is the largest producer. So this is a valid assumption to make. Do you have any information that would suggest a change in this model, such as GM or Ford sourcing their motors or batteries from China? What examples do you have of green tech exported from China that has found widespread adoption in China?
      - Ygg2 6y ago
        > You specifically mentioned electric cars in the US, of which Tesla is the largest producer I said "So if US goes all electric car, China would follow suit, etc." I didn't say if a single company in US goes electric car, China would follow suit. I quantified it as "all/most" not "exists". > What examples do you have of green tech exported from China that has found widespread adoption in China? Not green tech specifically, but most tech exported from China is also present locally in China.
        giantg2 6y ago
        "What China makes for US they also use a version of that internally." You are implying that China would be producing the cars, or at least the primary components. But you have provided no support for this. Current production and sourcing partnerships show no evidence to support your implication. Even ICE vehicles in the US overwhelmingly have the engine and transmission built in countries other than China, with a large number being built in the US, Canada, and Mexico.
        Ygg2 6y ago
        > You are implying that China would be producing the cars, or at least the primary components. They already are. Just because US doesn't buy all components from China doesn't mean that China won't develop those components for other markets or its internal use. But electric cars are at the moment a minority in China, if US went all-in on electric cars (an assuming no tariff war with China), that would kickstart mass conversion of car manufacturing process to electric. >Even ICE vehicles in the US overwhelmingly have the engine and transmission built in countries other than China, ICE != EV Yeah, because perfecting ICE takes decades of investment. Compared to them EV are easy and China already knows how to make them. Hell, they have entire logistic lines worked out for electrical motors. https://www.economist.com/technology-quarterly/2020/01/02/china-has-never-mastered-internal-combustion-engines https://www.economist.com/technology-quarterly/2020/01/02/ch...
  - flurdy 6y ago
    Erm, yes? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Giga_Shanghai https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Giga_Shanghai
    - giantg2 6y ago
      Thanks, I didn't see that. I had only heard of the cars being shipped over (in the recent recall).
- bluGill 6y ago
  China is able to look at the rest of the world and see trends and where they want to be. Most oil people who really look see that electric cars will have a place in the future world (as oil people they want to minimize it, but they are forced to admit there is a place for it). China doesn't have the built up oil infrastructure that the rest of the world has, and is seeing the affects of pollution in their cities. Thus it makes sense for China to adopt electric cars faster than the rest of the world: if you don't have infrastructure in place it is easier to justify building electric over oil, as opposed to US/Europe which needs to justify replacing otherwise working find oil infrastructure. If you can't be confident that you can fill your gas car on a long trip anyway you are going to prefer a gas car for those rare long trips, and so lack of charging infrastructure doesn't mean as much. This of course means more demand for electric car charging stations over gas stations and the effect can snowball into gas not being viable to use for long trips in China. The above is speculation of course. It seems reasonable, but only time will tell.

giantg2 6y ago

I highly doubt that. As others have said, China has no plans to reduce pollution until 2030 (negotiated at the accord) and is currently increasing their polluting infrastructure.

trasz 6y ago
Building forty nuclear power plants - which is what China is doing - won’t reduce pollution?
- giantg2 6y ago
  I understand they are still producing coal plants. So the nuclear plants might reduce their trajectory, but overall pollution will still be up if they are producing more coal plants. Hopefully those nuclear plants will be FAST reactors or there could be concerns around the waste management or poor building practices causing pollution too.
La1n 6y ago
Chinese Co2 emission seem to have flattened quite a lot in the last 6 years.