4 ms·

Any reason why youtube-dl hasn't filed a counter-takedown notice?

by verroq 6y ago

ikeboy 6y ago
This isn't a 512 notice, so a counternotice is not possible.
- sillysaurusx 6y ago
  Really? I thought that every dmca notice was counterable. GitHub simply took down the repo with no recourse? That doesn’t sound right.
  - ikeboy 6y ago
    Every notice is. This wasn't a notice. The recourse is filing a declaratory judgement to establish the legality of the code.
    - AnthonyMouse 6y ago
      > The recourse is filing a declaratory judgement to establish the legality of the code. Which is expensive relative to the resources of some individuals doing this as a hobby, so some kind of legal defense fund may be in order. Of course, the other option is to put enough pressure on Github/Microsoft to get them to be the ones to defend it, since it's not that expensive relative to the resources of a trillion dollar corporation, and they could quite plausibly have more to gain in positive PR with developers (or in avoiding continued negative PR) than they pay to the lawyers they probably already have on staff. We shouldn't forgive companies who do the wrong thing on issues like this, because the cost of people not forgiving them is a major incentive for them not to do the wrong thing.
      - bxk1 6y ago
        Microsoft pays for RIAA lawyers, why would it pay for more lawyers to defend themselves from other lawyers they pay for already?
        AnthonyMouse 6y ago
        The obvious solution being to stop paying money for RIAA lawyers and use that money to defend against the RIAA lawyers, netting zero expense and twice positive PR.
  - sohkamyung 6y ago
    > [T]he RIAA was not citing DMCA Section 512, the usual takedown route, but DMCA Section 1201, the ban on breaking digital locks. [1] [1] https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2020/11/github-youtube-dl-takedown-isnt-just-problem-american-law https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2020/11/github-youtube-dl-take...
cesarb 6y ago
Copy-pasting a comment of mine from a related thread (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24886260 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24886260): They might decide not to counter-notice, because there's a big trap in the DMCA counter-notice: as far as I know, for a DMCA counter-notice to be valid, the one doing the counter-notice must agree to be bound to the jurisdiction of an USA court. If the youtube-dl author is not from the USA (I think he's from the EU), that would expose him to legal risk. (As a non-USA person, to me this is the most evil part of the DMCA take-down system: even a defective DMCA notice leads to a dilemma, either you keep the content offline, or you risk being sued in a foreign jurisdiction you have no control over. This is also why I believe one should always prefer to host in one's own country, so that any dispute can be resolved by the local courts.)
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- bxk1 6y ago
  People outside of the US can't be bound to be sued in a US court or anywhere outside of the jurisdiction they currently reside in and even then a country he is a citizen of could try to use high level channels to get him out of there. Extradition treaties complicate this a bit more, but extradition still has to go through local laws, local law enforcement, local government and far from everyone would get extradited left and right if there is an agreement. The biggest thing a counter-notice could do (if it's even possible) is reveal one's identity and only if Microsoft/Github tries to verify it, which would be bad, because it could be used for harassment. But the author is obviously Russian, not sure if he lives in Russia, but if he does, they definitely won't be able to get him in Russia, only harass him.
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
karlzt 6y ago
Github is just one bottle in a room full of bottles https://alternativeto.net/software/github/ https://alternativeto.net/software/github/
- mxuribe 6y ago
  Exactly THIS!
- DrSiemer 6y ago
  Sure, but it's the most famous bottle, also among people that never use bottles

Any reason why youtube-dl hasn't filed a counter-takedown notice?

by verroq 6y ago

Any reason why youtube-dl hasn't filed a counter-takedown notice?

ikeboy 6y ago

This isn't a 512 notice, so a counternotice is not possible.

sillysaurusx 6y ago
Really? I thought that every dmca notice was counterable. GitHub simply took down the repo with no recourse? That doesn’t sound right.
- ikeboy 6y ago
  Every notice is. This wasn't a notice. The recourse is filing a declaratory judgement to establish the legality of the code.
  - AnthonyMouse 6y ago
    > The recourse is filing a declaratory judgement to establish the legality of the code. Which is expensive relative to the resources of some individuals doing this as a hobby, so some kind of legal defense fund may be in order. Of course, the other option is to put enough pressure on Github/Microsoft to get them to be the ones to defend it, since it's not that expensive relative to the resources of a trillion dollar corporation, and they could quite plausibly have more to gain in positive PR with developers (or in avoiding continued negative PR) than they pay to the lawyers they probably already have on staff. We shouldn't forgive companies who do the wrong thing on issues like this, because the cost of people not forgiving them is a major incentive for them not to do the wrong thing.
    - bxk1 6y ago
      Microsoft pays for RIAA lawyers, why would it pay for more lawyers to defend themselves from other lawyers they pay for already?
      - AnthonyMouse 6y ago
        The obvious solution being to stop paying money for RIAA lawyers and use that money to defend against the RIAA lawyers, netting zero expense and twice positive PR.
- sohkamyung 6y ago
  > [T]he RIAA was not citing DMCA Section 512, the usual takedown route, but DMCA Section 1201, the ban on breaking digital locks. [1] [1] https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2020/11/github-youtube-dl-takedown-isnt-just-problem-american-law https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2020/11/github-youtube-dl-take...

cesarb 6y ago

Copy-pasting a comment of mine from a related thread (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24886260 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24886260): They might decide not to counter-notice, because there's a big trap in the DMCA counter-notice: as far as I know, for a DMCA counter-notice to be valid, the one doing the counter-notice must agree to be bound to the jurisdiction of an USA court. If the youtube-dl author is not from the USA (I think he's from the EU), that would expose him to legal risk. (As a non-USA person, to me this is the most evil part of the DMCA take-down system: even a defective DMCA notice leads to a dilemma, either you keep the content offline, or you risk being sued in a foreign jurisdiction you have no control over. This is also why I believe one should always prefer to host in one's own country, so that any dispute can be resolved by the local courts.)

deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
bxk1 6y ago
People outside of the US can't be bound to be sued in a US court or anywhere outside of the jurisdiction they currently reside in and even then a country he is a citizen of could try to use high level channels to get him out of there. Extradition treaties complicate this a bit more, but extradition still has to go through local laws, local law enforcement, local government and far from everyone would get extradited left and right if there is an agreement. The biggest thing a counter-notice could do (if it's even possible) is reveal one's identity and only if Microsoft/Github tries to verify it, which would be bad, because it could be used for harassment. But the author is obviously Russian, not sure if he lives in Russia, but if he does, they definitely won't be able to get him in Russia, only harass him.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]

karlzt 6y ago

Github is just one bottle in a room full of bottles https://alternativeto.net/software/github/ https://alternativeto.net/software/github/

mxuribe 6y ago
Exactly THIS!
DrSiemer 6y ago
Sure, but it's the most famous bottle, also among people that never use bottles