5 ms·

This is a huge win for all, including drivers. If a driver decides they don't like how they're paid or the benefits they get, they have complete control to not

This is a huge win for all, including drivers. If a driver decides they don't like how they're paid or the benefits they get, they have complete control to not do the job and work elsewhere.

deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
speedgoose 6y ago
Everyone have complete control to change job and improve their quality of life whenever they want without taking any risk.
lsiebert 6y ago
prop 22 prevents drivers from organizing together to negotiate with these companies. Having the freedom to say no to a corporation individually is not at all the same as the ability to create a union and negotiate terms collectively.
- cody3222 6y ago
  These jobs didn't exist a decade ago. Drivers chose to work them in a fair economic transaction (I will trade my time for $X). They can choose to no longer work these jobs the same way that they didn't work them when they didn't exist. When they do this, and they eventually will, supply for these jobs will dry up and wages will naturally rise.
  - whimsicalism 6y ago
    > Drivers chose to work them in a fair economic transaction (I will trade my time for $X). Just because it is a voluntary transaction does not mean it is fair or should never be changed. Same reason why I think a $7.25/hr federal minimum wage is permissible, even though it might proscribe some voluntary transactions.
  - lsiebert 6y ago
    If that were true then there wouldn't be an issue with collective bargaining. Uber and Lyft only pay for the time a passenger is in the car, what is called engaged time, not for time with the app open waiting for customers or for driving to pick them up. Given how many drivers they have, studies in california estimate that up to a 1/3 of time drivers are not engaged, and thus not earning, just driving around clogging the streets or parked, and make as little as $5.64 an hour. Maybe you don't care about paying people poverty wages so they can never do better, but even if you are a sociopath who lives only for yourself, whose tax dollars do you think subsidize folks who can't afford rent, food, health insurance etc? https://laborcenter.berkeley.edu/the-effects-of-proposition-22-on-driver-earnings-response-to-a-lyft-funded-report-by-dr-christopher-thornberg/ https://laborcenter.berkeley.edu/the-effects-of-proposition-...
redis_mlc 6y ago
> This is a huge win for all, including drivers. If a driver decides they don't like how they're paid or the benefits they get, they have complete control to not do the job and work elsewhere. In theory, yes. In reality, no. It's important to maintain entry-level jobs that don't require advanced English skills, credentials, E-verify, or that allow self-scheduling. The US is the land of opportunity. Let's keep it that way, especially for people who want to work.
coldcode 6y ago
Really huge win for those without health insurance in the US. In any other country having a job with no benefits is not an issue, except here, where getting sick and going bankrupt are fine with everyone. Of course with such low unemployment, all the driver who have no desire to work in this job can just start as programmers and make huge salaries. Maybe they can take your job since you can just drive an Uber and be carefree.
- rayuela 6y ago
  This was a proper roast. I really needed a good laugh this morning.
- apta 6y ago
  So fix the underlying issue instead of going after private companies.
  - cody3222 6y ago
    exactly
  - maedla 6y ago
    the underlying issue is the private companies
    - colinmhayes 6y ago
      The underlying issue is society relying on private companies to pay for opaque benefits that make it difficult to figure out if one job pays better than another.
    - apta 6y ago
      One big underlying issue is that here is no health insurance. Let's CA provide that instead of acting lazy.
- stale2002 6y ago
  Most drivers supported Prop 22. So I think I am going to listen to their opinion on the matter.

This is a huge win for all, including drivers. If a driver decides they don't like how they're paid or the benefits they get, they have complete control to not do the job and work elsewhere.

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

speedgoose 6y ago

Everyone have complete control to change job and improve their quality of life whenever they want without taking any risk.

lsiebert 6y ago

prop 22 prevents drivers from organizing together to negotiate with these companies. Having the freedom to say no to a corporation individually is not at all the same as the ability to create a union and negotiate terms collectively.

cody3222 6y ago
These jobs didn't exist a decade ago. Drivers chose to work them in a fair economic transaction (I will trade my time for $X). They can choose to no longer work these jobs the same way that they didn't work them when they didn't exist. When they do this, and they eventually will, supply for these jobs will dry up and wages will naturally rise.
- whimsicalism 6y ago
  > Drivers chose to work them in a fair economic transaction (I will trade my time for $X). Just because it is a voluntary transaction does not mean it is fair or should never be changed. Same reason why I think a $7.25/hr federal minimum wage is permissible, even though it might proscribe some voluntary transactions.
- lsiebert 6y ago
  If that were true then there wouldn't be an issue with collective bargaining. Uber and Lyft only pay for the time a passenger is in the car, what is called engaged time, not for time with the app open waiting for customers or for driving to pick them up. Given how many drivers they have, studies in california estimate that up to a 1/3 of time drivers are not engaged, and thus not earning, just driving around clogging the streets or parked, and make as little as $5.64 an hour. Maybe you don't care about paying people poverty wages so they can never do better, but even if you are a sociopath who lives only for yourself, whose tax dollars do you think subsidize folks who can't afford rent, food, health insurance etc? https://laborcenter.berkeley.edu/the-effects-of-proposition-22-on-driver-earnings-response-to-a-lyft-funded-report-by-dr-christopher-thornberg/ https://laborcenter.berkeley.edu/the-effects-of-proposition-...

redis_mlc 6y ago

> This is a huge win for all, including drivers. If a driver decides they don't like how they're paid or the benefits they get, they have complete control to not do the job and work elsewhere. In theory, yes. In reality, no. It's important to maintain entry-level jobs that don't require advanced English skills, credentials, E-verify, or that allow self-scheduling. The US is the land of opportunity. Let's keep it that way, especially for people who want to work.

coldcode 6y ago

Really huge win for those without health insurance in the US. In any other country having a job with no benefits is not an issue, except here, where getting sick and going bankrupt are fine with everyone. Of course with such low unemployment, all the driver who have no desire to work in this job can just start as programmers and make huge salaries. Maybe they can take your job since you can just drive an Uber and be carefree.

rayuela 6y ago
This was a proper roast. I really needed a good laugh this morning.
apta 6y ago
So fix the underlying issue instead of going after private companies.
- cody3222 6y ago
  exactly
- maedla 6y ago
  the underlying issue is the private companies
  - colinmhayes 6y ago
    The underlying issue is society relying on private companies to pay for opaque benefits that make it difficult to figure out if one job pays better than another.
  - apta 6y ago
    One big underlying issue is that here is no health insurance. Let's CA provide that instead of acting lazy.
stale2002 6y ago
Most drivers supported Prop 22. So I think I am going to listen to their opinion on the matter.