6 ms·

If you have any predisposition towards psychosis, in family history or personally, please avoid LSD. For those firmly rooted, it might be pleasurable or produc

If you have any predisposition towards psychosis, in family history or personally, please avoid LSD. For those firmly rooted, it might be pleasurable or productive to become a little less so. If you're already sometimes on the edge, LSD can push you over. This happened to one of my best friends. Growing up he was crazy, creative, always saw things a little differently, prone to manic behavior. After a year of regular LSD use he was unable to form a coherent sentence. Please be careful.

cageface 16y ago
I've lost two good friends to this. Definitely be careful. A lot of government drug propaganda may be bullshit but it doesn't mean there aren't dangers.
anonLSD 16y ago
I'm very positive on LSD in general, but even to me, "a year of regular LSD use", or any kind of "regular" use sounds extreme and dangerous. I guess I take it for granted that something so intense should be approached with a great deal of respect and caution. I do find it odd that people naturally "get" this for things like driving a car, hang-gliding, back-country skiing, skateboarding, parkour.... but often shut down mentally when the subject is illegal drugs.
- mrleinad 16y ago
  Hope you find it odd that people regularly smoke cigarettes as well. Because the point is not whether a drug is made legal or not by your congress of the moment, but whether the benefits of it outweight the health danger.
  - anonLSD 16y ago
    People smoke cigarettes primarily because they are profoundly addictive, both chemically and psychologically. That confounds ordinary risk/reward analysis, and so I think it is a red herring here. Also, the "Hope you..." phrasing makes your comment come off as a bit sneering/condescending, just FYI.
    - 1337p337 16y ago
      When I am reading HN, it's almost always during time outside the office in the smoking area, or in front of my house, smoking a cigarette, like now. I would certainly agree that nicotine is profoundly addictive, and the cigarette as a delivery system equally so. It reduces anxiety (especially useful to smooth the effects of caffeine), acts as an apetite suppressant (long nights hacking can be interrupted by a five-minute smoke break rather than a thirty-minute food break), and is a mild stimulant. One issue here, though, is that as you become addicted, most of the anxiety you calm with cigarettes is caused by withdrawal symptoms or even fear of withdrawal symptoms, like headaches, hand tremors, dizziness, blurred vision, all very unpleasant. The pavlovian response is pretty strong: inhaling cigarette smoke gets you the effects within seconds. In the case of withdrawal symptoms, you have this discomfort, and it is relieved almost instantly after you inhale. People with anxiety disorders or depression have a strong tendency to self-medicate with nicotine. Psychologically, it's nice to have something to do with your hands while standing around outside waiting. Like time in the shower, sometimes I have my best ideas outside smoking, thinking about nothing in particular. And an excuse to get up from the computer and go out for a little while is great, too. There are social benefits as well, if you live in a neighborhood or work at a company where there are people coming and going, happy to converse outside. So the addiction goes fairly deep, and is often not understood by non-smokers. The fact that you see, in almost any major metropolitan environment, homeless people smoking is a pretty good indicator. Personally, there are times when I have opted to smoke rather than eat or sleep, and it is confounding but there's a deep urge anyway, as if my body were telling me that I "needed" to smoke, in the same way that it tells me I need to eat or sleep. I've made a number of attempts to quit, and have found the nicotine patches to be the most useful method. (I have a couple of boxes of them at home, waiting for Monday to roll around.)
      - jtheory 16y ago
        I'm grateful fairly frequently that I never went beyond sampling cigarettes as a kid. So a bit by chance, I don't smoke now, and I'm sure as hell not going to start as an adult. It's just profoundly clear to me (from your comments, from similar discussions with lots of other smokers) that there's no going back to a pre-smoking life. Life after quitting smoking (or any other deeply-rooted addition, I suspect) is not at all the same as a life where you never started; that bridge is burned.
- kgo 16y ago
  Yeah, if 'regular use' is more than once a week for a year, that's a lot of LSD. Psychosis might not be the causal element there, a shitload of lsd might be the causal element.
  - gbog 16y ago
    I know of very close people having big and long psycho troubles just with one trip.
  - drivebyacct2 16y ago
    LSD isn't effective more than once a week. If you took LSD two days in a row, it simply wouldn't do anything the second day. http://www.quora.com/Is-there-some-sort-of-refractory-period-for-dropping-acid http://www.quora.com/Is-there-some-sort-of-refractory-period... I guess you could take it two, max three times a week.
    - proexploit 16y ago
      Your first sentence and last sentence are contradictory. Additionally, the information you linked to could be a typo but it actually says that "This means that you should be able to dose the same quantity of acid again to achieve similar effects." I don't personally use LSD, but I believe this information to be correct: "There is a short period of tolerance after use. Using LSD two days in a row is likely to lead to a diminished experience the second day, though spaced 3 or more days apart, this effect is nearly non-existent." (via http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/lsd/lsd_basics.shtml http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/lsd/lsd_basics.shtml) Yes, using it two days in a row will result in a less powerful effect the second day but most people wouldn't attempt it that soon anyways (I'd assume). I only point this out as this thread makes LSD seem like a wonder drug and I'd want new users to get the correct information.
    - drivebyacct2 16y ago
      Wow, I left the original statement there because I thought it was a week. Corrected with a citation and got slaughtered. Don't mess with HN's LSD, huh!
- dooq 16y ago
  I would also strongly advise against regular use of LSD. I think LSD trips are highly influenced by your state of mind and intention towards the trip. Sometimes I've tripped looking for a spiritual event or revelations, and they often show up (in some form or another). Other times I've done it more 'just for fun' and there hasn't been as much revelation in it. LSD has been one of the most profound experiences of my life. I now reserve it for special occasions, and combine a bit of ceremony to it. It's a powerful substance, so treat it with the weight it deserves.
  - omarchowdhury 16y ago
    Where do you get it?
geebee 16y ago
I have no idea if this is rooted in scientific fact, but I've had such a similar experience I almost wonder if we are talking about the same guy. The sad thing is that we almost certainly aren't.
d2 16y ago
Thanks for posting this. I've had two friends profoundly affected by the drug. One is now schizophrenic after taking a large dose and will have a lifelong struggle. Thankfully he is supported by his family and his mom is a psychiatrist. The second took a large dose about a decade ago and after being a very conservative straight guy. Mormon. Straight A's. Didn't take drugs or drink. He immediately dropped out of school, moved in with a prostitute and decided he wanted a sex change. That was 10 years ago. Last year he had sex reassignment surgery in Thailand. In both cases I suspect the drug opened pathways that were suppressed. I see LSD as a truly mind altering drug. In rare cases it alters minds for the better. In many cases it exposes latent problems that can be debilitating and life-destroying.
- deleted 16y ago
  [deleted]
- jackowayed 16y ago
  I honestly can't tell if you're presenting the 2nd story as a good thing or a bad thing. I doubt that LSD made your friend transgendered (especially since it's been 10 years). Given that your friend is transgendered, it's probably a lot better that she figured it out while in school instead of when she was 40 and had a wife and kids, even though dropping out of school and getting one's sex reassignment surgery in Thailand are pretty bad ideas.
  - djcapelis 16y ago
    One small point of confusion with your otherwise good post: Some of the Thai surgeons are the best in the world for that particular procedure... going there is not typically considered a bad decision.
    - mbenjaminsmith 16y ago
      Actually Thai surgeons in general are very good. I recently entrusted my fiancee to one and the medical care she received was outstanding. The fastest growing tourism segment here is medical tourism. High quality care at a relatively low cost & lots of good food.
Zanon 16y ago
Yeah, you're not kidding. I took shrooms, A (LSD), E, smoked some marijuana (not much), tried cat a few times and generally partied it up for maybe a decade. At some point I found out that my mother had suffered from schizophrenia, which would explain why I got my money's worth out of marijuana, shrooms and A. I had a pretty hard time working out what was real. Bad trips were something else. We're talking about seeing everything bad about myself and humanity, which considering the basically selfish nature of a human is quite something. Very black-and-white, good-and-evil thinking, alternating between extremes. Synthesizing sounds, colors, physical things around me. When I read about people going nuts or harming themselves, I'm not surprised. Very black-and-white thinking can lead to some alarming thoughts. I'd find that if I spent a few hours spiralling on that I could lose the ego totally and emerge with a very objective sense of the world. A world in balance, things as they should be, personal and friends' faults accepted, insights into myself and others. I definitely made some amazing self-discoveries, but at significant risk.
Alex3917 16y ago
Here is a good video that explains what it's like to develop psychosis after taking LSD. The actual talk starts at around the 2:40 mark: http://vimeo.com/15959433 http://vimeo.com/15959433 Note though that his experiences were relatively minor compared to what some other people go through. Here are a couple songs about the same basic experience: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F7HBCSF9nfs http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F7HBCSF9nfs http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hSSmLYAjvRg http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hSSmLYAjvRg There's no question that people with a family history or other predisposition toward mental illness shouldn't use LSD. In general shrooms seem to be somewhat safer, probably because they last only a third as long. They're still not safe for someone with mental illness or a predisposition toward it, but they seem to be mostly safe for everyone else as long as those partaking take the time to learn and follow all of the relevant best practices. (Including being old enough; you always hear about all the psychedelic researchers who lived until old age, but what you don't hear is that none of them discovered drugs until their 30s.)
pessimizer 16y ago
I don't want to disagree with your opinion of the cause of your friend's psychosis, as you observed the process and I didn't, but as a general statement I'd like to put out there that the time of life when schizophrenia presents (late teens, twenties, early thirties) correlates with the years when people usually experiment with drugs. This has been true since before LSD existed. http://schizophrenia.com/photos/szage.onset.gif http://schizophrenia.com/photos/szage.onset.gif from http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8178665?dopt=Abstract http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8178665?dopt=Abstract

cageface 16y ago

I've lost two good friends to this. Definitely be careful. A lot of government drug propaganda may be bullshit but it doesn't mean there aren't dangers.

anonLSD 16y ago

I'm very positive on LSD in general, but even to me, "a year of regular LSD use", or any kind of "regular" use sounds extreme and dangerous. I guess I take it for granted that something so intense should be approached with a great deal of respect and caution. I do find it odd that people naturally "get" this for things like driving a car, hang-gliding, back-country skiing, skateboarding, parkour.... but often shut down mentally when the subject is illegal drugs.

mrleinad 16y ago
Hope you find it odd that people regularly smoke cigarettes as well. Because the point is not whether a drug is made legal or not by your congress of the moment, but whether the benefits of it outweight the health danger.
- anonLSD 16y ago
  People smoke cigarettes primarily because they are profoundly addictive, both chemically and psychologically. That confounds ordinary risk/reward analysis, and so I think it is a red herring here. Also, the "Hope you..." phrasing makes your comment come off as a bit sneering/condescending, just FYI.
  - 1337p337 16y ago
    When I am reading HN, it's almost always during time outside the office in the smoking area, or in front of my house, smoking a cigarette, like now. I would certainly agree that nicotine is profoundly addictive, and the cigarette as a delivery system equally so. It reduces anxiety (especially useful to smooth the effects of caffeine), acts as an apetite suppressant (long nights hacking can be interrupted by a five-minute smoke break rather than a thirty-minute food break), and is a mild stimulant. One issue here, though, is that as you become addicted, most of the anxiety you calm with cigarettes is caused by withdrawal symptoms or even fear of withdrawal symptoms, like headaches, hand tremors, dizziness, blurred vision, all very unpleasant. The pavlovian response is pretty strong: inhaling cigarette smoke gets you the effects within seconds. In the case of withdrawal symptoms, you have this discomfort, and it is relieved almost instantly after you inhale. People with anxiety disorders or depression have a strong tendency to self-medicate with nicotine. Psychologically, it's nice to have something to do with your hands while standing around outside waiting. Like time in the shower, sometimes I have my best ideas outside smoking, thinking about nothing in particular. And an excuse to get up from the computer and go out for a little while is great, too. There are social benefits as well, if you live in a neighborhood or work at a company where there are people coming and going, happy to converse outside. So the addiction goes fairly deep, and is often not understood by non-smokers. The fact that you see, in almost any major metropolitan environment, homeless people smoking is a pretty good indicator. Personally, there are times when I have opted to smoke rather than eat or sleep, and it is confounding but there's a deep urge anyway, as if my body were telling me that I "needed" to smoke, in the same way that it tells me I need to eat or sleep. I've made a number of attempts to quit, and have found the nicotine patches to be the most useful method. (I have a couple of boxes of them at home, waiting for Monday to roll around.)
    - jtheory 16y ago
      I'm grateful fairly frequently that I never went beyond sampling cigarettes as a kid. So a bit by chance, I don't smoke now, and I'm sure as hell not going to start as an adult. It's just profoundly clear to me (from your comments, from similar discussions with lots of other smokers) that there's no going back to a pre-smoking life. Life after quitting smoking (or any other deeply-rooted addition, I suspect) is not at all the same as a life where you never started; that bridge is burned.
kgo 16y ago
Yeah, if 'regular use' is more than once a week for a year, that's a lot of LSD. Psychosis might not be the causal element there, a shitload of lsd might be the causal element.
- gbog 16y ago
  I know of very close people having big and long psycho troubles just with one trip.
- drivebyacct2 16y ago
  LSD isn't effective more than once a week. If you took LSD two days in a row, it simply wouldn't do anything the second day. http://www.quora.com/Is-there-some-sort-of-refractory-period-for-dropping-acid http://www.quora.com/Is-there-some-sort-of-refractory-period... I guess you could take it two, max three times a week.
  - proexploit 16y ago
    Your first sentence and last sentence are contradictory. Additionally, the information you linked to could be a typo but it actually says that "This means that you should be able to dose the same quantity of acid again to achieve similar effects." I don't personally use LSD, but I believe this information to be correct: "There is a short period of tolerance after use. Using LSD two days in a row is likely to lead to a diminished experience the second day, though spaced 3 or more days apart, this effect is nearly non-existent." (via http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/lsd/lsd_basics.shtml http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/lsd/lsd_basics.shtml) Yes, using it two days in a row will result in a less powerful effect the second day but most people wouldn't attempt it that soon anyways (I'd assume). I only point this out as this thread makes LSD seem like a wonder drug and I'd want new users to get the correct information.
  - drivebyacct2 16y ago
    Wow, I left the original statement there because I thought it was a week. Corrected with a citation and got slaughtered. Don't mess with HN's LSD, huh!
dooq 16y ago
I would also strongly advise against regular use of LSD. I think LSD trips are highly influenced by your state of mind and intention towards the trip. Sometimes I've tripped looking for a spiritual event or revelations, and they often show up (in some form or another). Other times I've done it more 'just for fun' and there hasn't been as much revelation in it. LSD has been one of the most profound experiences of my life. I now reserve it for special occasions, and combine a bit of ceremony to it. It's a powerful substance, so treat it with the weight it deserves.
- omarchowdhury 16y ago
  Where do you get it?

geebee 16y ago

I have no idea if this is rooted in scientific fact, but I've had such a similar experience I almost wonder if we are talking about the same guy. The sad thing is that we almost certainly aren't.

d2 16y ago

Thanks for posting this. I've had two friends profoundly affected by the drug. One is now schizophrenic after taking a large dose and will have a lifelong struggle. Thankfully he is supported by his family and his mom is a psychiatrist. The second took a large dose about a decade ago and after being a very conservative straight guy. Mormon. Straight A's. Didn't take drugs or drink. He immediately dropped out of school, moved in with a prostitute and decided he wanted a sex change. That was 10 years ago. Last year he had sex reassignment surgery in Thailand. In both cases I suspect the drug opened pathways that were suppressed. I see LSD as a truly mind altering drug. In rare cases it alters minds for the better. In many cases it exposes latent problems that can be debilitating and life-destroying.

deleted 16y ago
[deleted]
jackowayed 16y ago
I honestly can't tell if you're presenting the 2nd story as a good thing or a bad thing. I doubt that LSD made your friend transgendered (especially since it's been 10 years). Given that your friend is transgendered, it's probably a lot better that she figured it out while in school instead of when she was 40 and had a wife and kids, even though dropping out of school and getting one's sex reassignment surgery in Thailand are pretty bad ideas.
- djcapelis 16y ago
  One small point of confusion with your otherwise good post: Some of the Thai surgeons are the best in the world for that particular procedure... going there is not typically considered a bad decision.
  - mbenjaminsmith 16y ago
    Actually Thai surgeons in general are very good. I recently entrusted my fiancee to one and the medical care she received was outstanding. The fastest growing tourism segment here is medical tourism. High quality care at a relatively low cost & lots of good food.

Zanon 16y ago

Yeah, you're not kidding. I took shrooms, A (LSD), E, smoked some marijuana (not much), tried cat a few times and generally partied it up for maybe a decade. At some point I found out that my mother had suffered from schizophrenia, which would explain why I got my money's worth out of marijuana, shrooms and A. I had a pretty hard time working out what was real. Bad trips were something else. We're talking about seeing everything bad about myself and humanity, which considering the basically selfish nature of a human is quite something. Very black-and-white, good-and-evil thinking, alternating between extremes. Synthesizing sounds, colors, physical things around me. When I read about people going nuts or harming themselves, I'm not surprised. Very black-and-white thinking can lead to some alarming thoughts. I'd find that if I spent a few hours spiralling on that I could lose the ego totally and emerge with a very objective sense of the world. A world in balance, things as they should be, personal and friends' faults accepted, insights into myself and others. I definitely made some amazing self-discoveries, but at significant risk.

Alex3917 16y ago

Here is a good video that explains what it's like to develop psychosis after taking LSD. The actual talk starts at around the 2:40 mark: http://vimeo.com/15959433 http://vimeo.com/15959433 Note though that his experiences were relatively minor compared to what some other people go through. Here are a couple songs about the same basic experience: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F7HBCSF9nfs http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F7HBCSF9nfs http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hSSmLYAjvRg http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hSSmLYAjvRg There's no question that people with a family history or other predisposition toward mental illness shouldn't use LSD. In general shrooms seem to be somewhat safer, probably because they last only a third as long. They're still not safe for someone with mental illness or a predisposition toward it, but they seem to be mostly safe for everyone else as long as those partaking take the time to learn and follow all of the relevant best practices. (Including being old enough; you always hear about all the psychedelic researchers who lived until old age, but what you don't hear is that none of them discovered drugs until their 30s.)

pessimizer 16y ago

I don't want to disagree with your opinion of the cause of your friend's psychosis, as you observed the process and I didn't, but as a general statement I'd like to put out there that the time of life when schizophrenia presents (late teens, twenties, early thirties) correlates with the years when people usually experiment with drugs. This has been true since before LSD existed. http://schizophrenia.com/photos/szage.onset.gif http://schizophrenia.com/photos/szage.onset.gif from http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8178665?dopt=Abstract http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8178665?dopt=Abstract