6 ms·

California passes Proposition 22, backed by Uber and Lyft

32 points by jlahijani 6y ago

rutledge87 6y ago
If regulatory capture weren't a big enough issue, how about some nice, manufactured astroturfing and mental gymnastic rationalizations to cheat employees? Hurray for "disruptive" startups that can buy laws with saturating media with half-truths. Let's not forget Lyft and Uber's business model is to socialize the costs of a taxi business, including vehicle acquisition, maintenance, and deprecation onto the drivers. How is that anything other than stealing from what would otherwise be taxi drivers with economic slavery volunteerism? PS: Hello from Colorado so far. Bye CA, thanks for all of the earthquakes, fires, and power outages.
- cafard 6y ago
  You haven't noticed any fires in Colorado yet? And as I recall, we spent about twelve hours without power our first autumn in Colorado long ago--an October snowstorm, or maybe the lightning that accompanied it, saw to that. I liked Colorado, don't get me wrong.
- Nasrudith 6y ago
  That is not what any of those words mean at all. Socializing costs means an externality to bear costs to those not a party to the transaction and their drivers are party to tbe transaction. Stealing by making vehicle owners pay the cost of their vehicles, maintenance, and the drop of value over time? Uber is not entropy itself. Just how would you get that concept? "Economic slavery volunteerism" just what? That is several different contradictions rolled into one. They are slaves but they only stay around because they are paid and volunteer.
LatteLazy 6y ago
Maybe people just like Uber etc...
- bergstromm466 6y ago
  only the rent-seeking owners and their shareholders 'like' it. if you cannot see how this business model is dehumanizing and parasitic, and sucks wealth to the top, I'm honestly not so sure what to say to you... SV companies get their wealth from monopolies granted by the state. “The basic idea is simple; it is that the ‘state vs market’ diagram of the world is flawed. In reality, there is no such thing as The Market; there are many markets. Even the civil service is a market (for funding, promotion, reputation etc). Competition and collaboration are inevitable functions of any human system. Similarly, the concept of ‘big’ or ‘small’ government makes no sense. In the end, we are always taxed and regulated by someone, it is just a question of who, and to what end? A better way to understand the relationship between ‘the state’ and ‘the market’ is to see nation states as platforms: makers and shapers of markets. They provide the land, infrastructure and set the rules and goals – in the same way that, for example, the App Store creates, regulates and taxes the market for iOS apps. The moment you begin to look at government through this lens, two things immediately become clear. First, a lot of what has been sold to us as ‘free market’ capitalism was in fact the opposite; the privatisation of the platform, creating a series of privately owned monopolies protected from competition, extracting taxation without representation, and profits without prosperity.” Source: https://medium.com/@AlastairParvin/progress-again-6f6213bdcde8 https://medium.com/@AlastairParvin/progress-again-6f6213bdcd...
  - LatteLazy 6y ago
    One bit I don't quite understand: how is Uber a state granted monopoly? I get that they're allowed to exist only because the state so decides. But as far as I am aware, the state doesn't ban anyone else (lyft or your and me) from competing do they? Sorry if I'm missing your point. Also, I quite like the "State as Platform" model.
    - contravariant 6y ago
      I don't think 'state granted monopoly' is a good way to phrase it. If you go by the quoted excerpt (which I largely agree with) then it's not so much a monopoly but more of a captive market, and it's not so much granted as merely 'allowed'. And sure you could set up your own competing ride-sharing market, though you'd have to convince people to share and buy rides through your market and not the well known one, so eventually a free or mostly free market may come into existence but until that happens we'll have to deal with markets held captive by apps and webpages.
bergstromm466 6y ago
This will just cause a deepening of the Digital and Information Feudalism that is already going on. It will result in a violent revolution by the working classes, to throw off these chains, and to democratize the use and application of the underlying technologies used by Uber et al. I am sad that American citizens are subjected to these experiments by American billionaires. They are systemically dehumanized, exploited and pushed to their limits. [1] Why do people still stand behind copyrights and patents, in this age of zero-marginal cost reproduction and transmission of information? [2] [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9abrZwnPThE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9abrZwnPThE [2] https://archive.org/stream/GuerillaOpenAccessManifesto/Goamjuly2008_djvu.txt https://archive.org/stream/GuerillaOpenAccessManifesto/Goamj...
olliej 6y ago
Cool, and reverting it requires an 8/9 majority. Because that's a thing that a proposition can do.
paulmendoza 6y ago
Tesla basically has level 5 autonomy or looks to be super close with the beta they are running. Go watch the YouTube videos. In three to six months it will probably be good enough for robo taxis. So in a year or two Tesla will destroy Uber and Lyft with far lower prices.
- tandr 6y ago
  If your prediction is correct, than that's both Uber and Lyft were trying to get going by working on it by themselves. Means that either them not far from that too, or Uber and Lyft will partner or just buy the majority of cars from Tesla, and reduce employed workforce to a minimum.

32 points by jlahijani 6y ago

If regulatory capture weren't a big enough issue, how about some nice, manufactured astroturfing and mental gymnastic rationalizations to cheat employees? Hurray for "disruptive" startups that can buy laws with saturating media with half-truths. Let's not forget Lyft and Uber's business model is to socialize the costs of a taxi business, including vehicle acquisition, maintenance, and deprecation onto the drivers. How is that anything other than stealing from what would otherwise be taxi drivers with economic slavery volunteerism? PS: Hello from Colorado so far. Bye CA, thanks for all of the earthquakes, fires, and power outages.

cafard 6y ago
You haven't noticed any fires in Colorado yet? And as I recall, we spent about twelve hours without power our first autumn in Colorado long ago--an October snowstorm, or maybe the lightning that accompanied it, saw to that. I liked Colorado, don't get me wrong.
Nasrudith 6y ago
That is not what any of those words mean at all. Socializing costs means an externality to bear costs to those not a party to the transaction and their drivers are party to tbe transaction. Stealing by making vehicle owners pay the cost of their vehicles, maintenance, and the drop of value over time? Uber is not entropy itself. Just how would you get that concept? "Economic slavery volunteerism" just what? That is several different contradictions rolled into one. They are slaves but they only stay around because they are paid and volunteer.

LatteLazy 6y ago

Maybe people just like Uber etc...

bergstromm466 6y ago
only the rent-seeking owners and their shareholders 'like' it. if you cannot see how this business model is dehumanizing and parasitic, and sucks wealth to the top, I'm honestly not so sure what to say to you... SV companies get their wealth from monopolies granted by the state. “The basic idea is simple; it is that the ‘state vs market’ diagram of the world is flawed. In reality, there is no such thing as The Market; there are many markets. Even the civil service is a market (for funding, promotion, reputation etc). Competition and collaboration are inevitable functions of any human system. Similarly, the concept of ‘big’ or ‘small’ government makes no sense. In the end, we are always taxed and regulated by someone, it is just a question of who, and to what end? A better way to understand the relationship between ‘the state’ and ‘the market’ is to see nation states as platforms: makers and shapers of markets. They provide the land, infrastructure and set the rules and goals – in the same way that, for example, the App Store creates, regulates and taxes the market for iOS apps. The moment you begin to look at government through this lens, two things immediately become clear. First, a lot of what has been sold to us as ‘free market’ capitalism was in fact the opposite; the privatisation of the platform, creating a series of privately owned monopolies protected from competition, extracting taxation without representation, and profits without prosperity.” Source: https://medium.com/@AlastairParvin/progress-again-6f6213bdcde8 https://medium.com/@AlastairParvin/progress-again-6f6213bdcd...
- LatteLazy 6y ago
  One bit I don't quite understand: how is Uber a state granted monopoly? I get that they're allowed to exist only because the state so decides. But as far as I am aware, the state doesn't ban anyone else (lyft or your and me) from competing do they? Sorry if I'm missing your point. Also, I quite like the "State as Platform" model.
  - contravariant 6y ago
    I don't think 'state granted monopoly' is a good way to phrase it. If you go by the quoted excerpt (which I largely agree with) then it's not so much a monopoly but more of a captive market, and it's not so much granted as merely 'allowed'. And sure you could set up your own competing ride-sharing market, though you'd have to convince people to share and buy rides through your market and not the well known one, so eventually a free or mostly free market may come into existence but until that happens we'll have to deal with markets held captive by apps and webpages.

bergstromm466 6y ago

This will just cause a deepening of the Digital and Information Feudalism that is already going on. It will result in a violent revolution by the working classes, to throw off these chains, and to democratize the use and application of the underlying technologies used by Uber et al. I am sad that American citizens are subjected to these experiments by American billionaires. They are systemically dehumanized, exploited and pushed to their limits. [1] Why do people still stand behind copyrights and patents, in this age of zero-marginal cost reproduction and transmission of information? [2] [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9abrZwnPThE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9abrZwnPThE [2] https://archive.org/stream/GuerillaOpenAccessManifesto/Goamjuly2008_djvu.txt https://archive.org/stream/GuerillaOpenAccessManifesto/Goamj...

olliej 6y ago

Cool, and reverting it requires an 8/9 majority. Because that's a thing that a proposition can do.

paulmendoza 6y ago

Tesla basically has level 5 autonomy or looks to be super close with the beta they are running. Go watch the YouTube videos. In three to six months it will probably be good enough for robo taxis. So in a year or two Tesla will destroy Uber and Lyft with far lower prices.

tandr 6y ago
If your prediction is correct, than that's both Uber and Lyft were trying to get going by working on it by themselves. Means that either them not far from that too, or Uber and Lyft will partner or just buy the majority of cars from Tesla, and reduce employed workforce to a minimum.