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Regarding the climate data: Climate change is definitely happening. The problem is that the current model for sea ice growth is wrong because we're missing some

Regarding the climate data: Climate change is definitely happening. The problem is that the current model for sea ice growth is wrong because we're missing something (hypotheses need to be tested: maybe the salinity of water is dropping at the surface, maybe there's a change in water currents), but sea ice grow and melt every year. The ice shelves, however, are melting at a record pace.

dnautics 6y ago
"Climate change is definitely happening" This is such a non statement. Climate always changes. The correct statement is "the earth is definitely warming".
- dagss 6y ago
  No. Climate does not always change at the extreme rate it is changing now. A change in 4 degrees celsius in a century is very different from a change in 4 degrees celsius over 10 000 years. The term "climate change" almost always refers to the current rapid changes over a century as opposed to natural rates of change; if someone misunderstands that I suspect that it is because they have decided to misunderstand it.
- bananamerica 6y ago
  The term “climate change” has a universally accepted meaning and ignoring that is useless nitpicking. There’s a rhetorical component to language.
  - dnautics 6y ago
    No it's not. When language is changed as a coordinated political effort to rebrand something it creates something akin to a streisand effect. For commercial products, whatever, no press is bad press. For science, it's a problem.
- twojacobtwo 6y ago
  This is just being pedantic. I have never encountered anyone in-person who did not immediately understand and/or equate "climate change" as "the earth is warming". If we want to get the message across to the average person, this type of tut-tut message does no good.
  - dnautics 6y ago
    Really? The problem is that changing the goalposts/rebranding is fodder for deniers.
    - twojacobtwo 6y ago
      That is a fair point. I do recognize the need to differentiate the two as soon as it becomes obvious that someone is trying to use the term to dispute the facts, but I find that most people just want to use the term they know and end up feeling burned if they're corrected while they're already trying to advance the cause.

dnautics 6y ago

"Climate change is definitely happening" This is such a non statement. Climate always changes. The correct statement is "the earth is definitely warming".

dagss 6y ago
No. Climate does not always change at the extreme rate it is changing now. A change in 4 degrees celsius in a century is very different from a change in 4 degrees celsius over 10 000 years. The term "climate change" almost always refers to the current rapid changes over a century as opposed to natural rates of change; if someone misunderstands that I suspect that it is because they have decided to misunderstand it.
bananamerica 6y ago
The term “climate change” has a universally accepted meaning and ignoring that is useless nitpicking. There’s a rhetorical component to language.
- dnautics 6y ago
  No it's not. When language is changed as a coordinated political effort to rebrand something it creates something akin to a streisand effect. For commercial products, whatever, no press is bad press. For science, it's a problem.
twojacobtwo 6y ago
This is just being pedantic. I have never encountered anyone in-person who did not immediately understand and/or equate "climate change" as "the earth is warming". If we want to get the message across to the average person, this type of tut-tut message does no good.
- dnautics 6y ago
  Really? The problem is that changing the goalposts/rebranding is fodder for deniers.
  - twojacobtwo 6y ago
    That is a fair point. I do recognize the need to differentiate the two as soon as it becomes obvious that someone is trying to use the term to dispute the facts, but I find that most people just want to use the term they know and end up feeling burned if they're corrected while they're already trying to advance the cause.