4 ms·

I cannot believe that we went to a point where people will be censored for what they say without directly or indirectly harming anyone - except only the people

I cannot believe that we went to a point where people will be censored for what they say without directly or indirectly harming anyone - except only the people who want to live with the illusion that everybody loves them! Being raised in a Commie country, this brings back memories... but it's even worse! People back then openly shared thoughts only in circles of trust. Personally, I'd rather allow people to say their hatred openly so that I know what they think rather than policing only their verbal output and disguise their thought process, which I only care about as that could lead to actions and harm! In fact, this censorship can only make people who have those destructive thoughts and ideas to do real harm more united as they now feel persecuted! P.S. I didn't know there are so many censorships fans on HN!

cblconfederate 6y ago
There is no free speech movement in europe. With UK gone , only France maybe advocates a radical version of laisez faire , but its hitting deaf ears in europe apparently. Germany is generally the most proactive in promoting EU wide regulation that limits speech.
- nikolay 6y ago
  We're no longer humans, but ostriches shoving our heads into the sand. I think it's priceless to know exactly what people think of me, and not twist their arms and tongues, and then get a knife in my back once of a sudden. Everything could be qualified as hate speech... unless it's politically-correct hate speech, like, the hatred against single white heteresoxual men, who are openly being vilified nowadays.
  - EliRivers 6y ago
    "the hatred against single white heteresoxual men, who are openly being vilified nowadays" Hysterical bullshit. Heterosexual white male is still the easiest setting on which to play the game of life.
    - nikolay 6y ago
      I kept being called a "white man" and associated with crimes neither me, nor many any ancestors have done for thousands of years! So are my kids who are being harassed by the educational system and labeled "white". This is reverse racism! Race is not a scientific concept either! Can we stop using it and calling people "white", "black", "brown", "yellow", etc.?! I'm not even white per se - I'm only perceived as "white", because I'm not dark-skinned during the winter when I see no sun. How is this humane? How is this progress? How is "white and inherently racist" not hate speech, but it's allowed.
      - EliRivers 6y ago
        Heartbreaking. I feel for you, I really do, but right now the anti-racism resources are heavily taken up for the whole "getting murdered for the crime of 'jogging while black'" thing and so on. I'm not downplaying your troubles in life. Sure sounds tough. But with limited resources, we have to pick where to concentrate the efforts.
        nikolay 6y ago
        I don't deny there's racism, but I'm not the offender, because of the appearance of my skin if I don't see enough sun. Neither are my kids. People who believe in self-identity do not honor that I don't identify myself as a white person. My people have never colonized countries, never had slaves - on the contrary, we've been slaves for a total of 7 centuries throughout our history! So, I sympathize and try to help, but, please, don't send my kids home crying with the guilt of being perceived as white people! This is not helping solve the racial issues by building up more unfairness! Racism is an individual guilt, it cannot be a collective one - just like any other crime. Accusing people of profiling Arabs as terrorists while profiling white people as inherently racist - how is this fair?!
        dragonwriter 6y ago
        Like gender, race involves both racial identity and socially ascribed race. Privilege, which relates to (but is not in and of itself) passive participation in systematic racism (and, on the flip side, oppression and victimization by racism, whether active or passive) is mostly a factor of socially ascribed race, not racial identity.
- nailer 6y ago
  The UK has a fairly strong online movement towards intellectual debate which includes, because it necessitates, free speech advocacy.
  - nikolay 6y ago
    And this is the intelligent and civilized way as silencing voices, even the demonic ones, has been proven wrong over and over again! It does not work either as people can pretend, but meanwhile accumulate pressure, and then explode and have much dare consequences! A civil discourse with even the most greatly polarized opinions is the only civil and civilized way to find the truth, and educate people!

cblconfederate 6y ago

There is no free speech movement in europe. With UK gone , only France maybe advocates a radical version of laisez faire , but its hitting deaf ears in europe apparently. Germany is generally the most proactive in promoting EU wide regulation that limits speech.

nikolay 6y ago
We're no longer humans, but ostriches shoving our heads into the sand. I think it's priceless to know exactly what people think of me, and not twist their arms and tongues, and then get a knife in my back once of a sudden. Everything could be qualified as hate speech... unless it's politically-correct hate speech, like, the hatred against single white heteresoxual men, who are openly being vilified nowadays.
- EliRivers 6y ago
  "the hatred against single white heteresoxual men, who are openly being vilified nowadays" Hysterical bullshit. Heterosexual white male is still the easiest setting on which to play the game of life.
  - nikolay 6y ago
    I kept being called a "white man" and associated with crimes neither me, nor many any ancestors have done for thousands of years! So are my kids who are being harassed by the educational system and labeled "white". This is reverse racism! Race is not a scientific concept either! Can we stop using it and calling people "white", "black", "brown", "yellow", etc.?! I'm not even white per se - I'm only perceived as "white", because I'm not dark-skinned during the winter when I see no sun. How is this humane? How is this progress? How is "white and inherently racist" not hate speech, but it's allowed.
    - EliRivers 6y ago
      Heartbreaking. I feel for you, I really do, but right now the anti-racism resources are heavily taken up for the whole "getting murdered for the crime of 'jogging while black'" thing and so on. I'm not downplaying your troubles in life. Sure sounds tough. But with limited resources, we have to pick where to concentrate the efforts.
      - nikolay 6y ago
        I don't deny there's racism, but I'm not the offender, because of the appearance of my skin if I don't see enough sun. Neither are my kids. People who believe in self-identity do not honor that I don't identify myself as a white person. My people have never colonized countries, never had slaves - on the contrary, we've been slaves for a total of 7 centuries throughout our history! So, I sympathize and try to help, but, please, don't send my kids home crying with the guilt of being perceived as white people! This is not helping solve the racial issues by building up more unfairness! Racism is an individual guilt, it cannot be a collective one - just like any other crime. Accusing people of profiling Arabs as terrorists while profiling white people as inherently racist - how is this fair?!
        dragonwriter 6y ago
        Like gender, race involves both racial identity and socially ascribed race. Privilege, which relates to (but is not in and of itself) passive participation in systematic racism (and, on the flip side, oppression and victimization by racism, whether active or passive) is mostly a factor of socially ascribed race, not racial identity.
nailer 6y ago
The UK has a fairly strong online movement towards intellectual debate which includes, because it necessitates, free speech advocacy.
- nikolay 6y ago
  And this is the intelligent and civilized way as silencing voices, even the demonic ones, has been proven wrong over and over again! It does not work either as people can pretend, but meanwhile accumulate pressure, and then explode and have much dare consequences! A civil discourse with even the most greatly polarized opinions is the only civil and civilized way to find the truth, and educate people!