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Balkan countries can't seem to agree on this question as well. There's a current dispute between Bulgaria and (North) Macedonia. Basically, Bulgaria is not wil

Balkan countries can't seem to agree on this question as well. There's a current dispute between Bulgaria and (North) Macedonia. Basically, Bulgaria is not willing to recognize the Macedonian language, with their vice-prime-minister recently saying it's the "Esperanto language on the Balkans". They're also veto Macedonia's EU membership negotiations. It's an ongoing, heated discussion which has (unfortunately) caused hatred between the countries (North Macedonia and Bulgaria have been mostly friendly between each other in the past).

gt565k 6y ago
Macedonia has a large ethnic Bulgarian population by origin. The running joke of Bulgarians is that Macedonians are really Bulgarians with a fake history. It's no surprise, after the split of Yugoslavia, which had many different ethnic minorities. Eastern Europe is a brewing pot of cultural diversity and history. Macedonians regularly apply for Bulgarian citizenship if they can prove their origin is from Bulgaria, so as to get a backdoor into the EU, they get a Bulgarian passport. [1] Eastern Europe / the Balkans are pretty complex. They have been ruled by The first and second Bulgarian Empires, The Byzantine Empire, the Roman Empire, and the Ottomans. [1] https://www.novinite.com/articles/112811/Bulgarian+Passports+for+Macedonians%3A+Debunking+Myths#:~:text=Bulgaria%20grants%20citizenship%20to%20Macedonians,could%20be%20eligible%20for%20citizenship https://www.novinite.com/articles/112811/Bulgarian+Passports....
- lou1306 6y ago
  > Eastern Europe / the Balkans are pretty complex. They have been ruled by The first and second Bulgarian Empires, The Byzantine Empire, the Roman Empire, and the Ottomans. Pretty much sums it up, but you forgot the Most Serene Republic of Venice :)
  - tpm 6y ago
    And also partly by Austria-Hungary and the Soviet Union who all left their marks.
    - mushbino 6y ago
      Don't forget the relationship between Italy and Albania. Also, it might be worth noting that although influenced by the Soviet Union, Yugoslavia and Albania separately broke ties with Stalin in a pretty bold move for the time.
      - ljosifov 6y ago
        I like to think Yugoslavia got lucky there and managed to get away from Stalin in 1948 b/c: 1) It was already on the periphery of the SU sphere of influence, not central (unlike the unlucky Hungary, Czechoslovakia etc) 2) It was already agreed it will be 50:50 sphere of influence SU:US, at Yalta conference only couple of years back 3) In 1948 SU still lacked the atom bomb, while US already got it 4) Memory of WW2 still very fresh, would SU risk confrontation with US over far&away lands
- dangelov 6y ago
  I think this glosses over corruption in Bulgaria[1] and the fact that a lot of people got a Bulgarian passport without actually having any Bulgarian roots. [1] https://www.dw.com/en/bulgarian-passport-scam-officials-arrested/a-46114772 https://www.dw.com/en/bulgarian-passport-scam-officials-arre...
- dragandj 6y ago
  > The running joke of Bulgarians is that Macedonians are really Bulgarians with a fake history. Funnily, the equivalent running joke in Serbia is that Macedonians are Serbs with a speech disorder.
  - ljosifov 6y ago
    Heh - I understand this is (mostly?) in jest, and I'm not going out of my way deliberately seeking offence. Having left the Balkans, I find it very liberating, these days, when a proposal or idea of mine gets shot down, that I don't have to wonder: "Did they think I am a liar?", "Did I not articulate it over well enough?" and the like. It is such a relief, to know - it was most likely the idea, not myself.
akmarinov 6y ago
Macedonians on the other hand won’t recognize that there’s a Bulgarian minority in their country.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- kyran_adept 6y ago
  I'm genuinely curious, not trying to start a war: what about the Aromanian minority from (Northern) Macedonia? Is that recognized?
  - dangelov 6y ago
    Yes, they are. See here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aromanians_in_North_Macedonia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aromanians_in_North_Macedonia
toolslive 6y ago
Is there any question on which Balkan countries can find consensus? This is a part of the world where you have family feuds that have existed for more than 6 centuries.
- coldtea 6y ago
  Yes, and blacks are lazy and like watermelons /s Meanwhile, the big western nations that started 2 world wars, gassed 6 million people (plus some tens of thousands of soldiers in WWI), and gone to war and occupied peoples all around the globe as colonial powers, somehow managed to even pin WWI on the Balkans (as if it was the assassination of Archduke Franz Ferdinand the cause, and not a mere pretext, the cause being western european power plays, of the same powers that were the dominant forces in the war).
pvg 6y ago
The contrived Greek objection to 'Macedonia' was that the name was somehow indicative of territorial ambitions. Bulgaria was the first state to recognize independent Macedonia nearly 30 years ago which makes the bickering over whether Macedonians get to call themselves Macedonian and speak Macedonian one of the remaining zero-stakes disputes of small nations around.
- coldtea 6y ago
  >one of the remaining zero-stakes disputes of small nations around Which is the kind of disputes big nations use to influence local policies, sell weapons, create satellite states, etc, to use for their higher-stakes disputes...

gt565k 6y ago

Macedonia has a large ethnic Bulgarian population by origin. The running joke of Bulgarians is that Macedonians are really Bulgarians with a fake history. It's no surprise, after the split of Yugoslavia, which had many different ethnic minorities. Eastern Europe is a brewing pot of cultural diversity and history. Macedonians regularly apply for Bulgarian citizenship if they can prove their origin is from Bulgaria, so as to get a backdoor into the EU, they get a Bulgarian passport. [1] Eastern Europe / the Balkans are pretty complex. They have been ruled by The first and second Bulgarian Empires, The Byzantine Empire, the Roman Empire, and the Ottomans. [1] https://www.novinite.com/articles/112811/Bulgarian+Passports+for+Macedonians%3A+Debunking+Myths#:~:text=Bulgaria%20grants%20citizenship%20to%20Macedonians,could%20be%20eligible%20for%20citizenship https://www.novinite.com/articles/112811/Bulgarian+Passports....

lou1306 6y ago
> Eastern Europe / the Balkans are pretty complex. They have been ruled by The first and second Bulgarian Empires, The Byzantine Empire, the Roman Empire, and the Ottomans. Pretty much sums it up, but you forgot the Most Serene Republic of Venice :)
- tpm 6y ago
  And also partly by Austria-Hungary and the Soviet Union who all left their marks.
  - mushbino 6y ago
    Don't forget the relationship between Italy and Albania. Also, it might be worth noting that although influenced by the Soviet Union, Yugoslavia and Albania separately broke ties with Stalin in a pretty bold move for the time.
    - ljosifov 6y ago
      I like to think Yugoslavia got lucky there and managed to get away from Stalin in 1948 b/c: 1) It was already on the periphery of the SU sphere of influence, not central (unlike the unlucky Hungary, Czechoslovakia etc) 2) It was already agreed it will be 50:50 sphere of influence SU:US, at Yalta conference only couple of years back 3) In 1948 SU still lacked the atom bomb, while US already got it 4) Memory of WW2 still very fresh, would SU risk confrontation with US over far&away lands
dangelov 6y ago
I think this glosses over corruption in Bulgaria[1] and the fact that a lot of people got a Bulgarian passport without actually having any Bulgarian roots. [1] https://www.dw.com/en/bulgarian-passport-scam-officials-arrested/a-46114772 https://www.dw.com/en/bulgarian-passport-scam-officials-arre...
dragandj 6y ago
> The running joke of Bulgarians is that Macedonians are really Bulgarians with a fake history. Funnily, the equivalent running joke in Serbia is that Macedonians are Serbs with a speech disorder.
- ljosifov 6y ago
  Heh - I understand this is (mostly?) in jest, and I'm not going out of my way deliberately seeking offence. Having left the Balkans, I find it very liberating, these days, when a proposal or idea of mine gets shot down, that I don't have to wonder: "Did they think I am a liar?", "Did I not articulate it over well enough?" and the like. It is such a relief, to know - it was most likely the idea, not myself.

akmarinov 6y ago

Macedonians on the other hand won’t recognize that there’s a Bulgarian minority in their country.

deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
kyran_adept 6y ago
I'm genuinely curious, not trying to start a war: what about the Aromanian minority from (Northern) Macedonia? Is that recognized?
- dangelov 6y ago
  Yes, they are. See here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aromanians_in_North_Macedonia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aromanians_in_North_Macedonia

toolslive 6y ago

Is there any question on which Balkan countries can find consensus? This is a part of the world where you have family feuds that have existed for more than 6 centuries.

coldtea 6y ago
Yes, and blacks are lazy and like watermelons /s Meanwhile, the big western nations that started 2 world wars, gassed 6 million people (plus some tens of thousands of soldiers in WWI), and gone to war and occupied peoples all around the globe as colonial powers, somehow managed to even pin WWI on the Balkans (as if it was the assassination of Archduke Franz Ferdinand the cause, and not a mere pretext, the cause being western european power plays, of the same powers that were the dominant forces in the war).

pvg 6y ago

The contrived Greek objection to 'Macedonia' was that the name was somehow indicative of territorial ambitions. Bulgaria was the first state to recognize independent Macedonia nearly 30 years ago which makes the bickering over whether Macedonians get to call themselves Macedonian and speak Macedonian one of the remaining zero-stakes disputes of small nations around.

coldtea 6y ago
>one of the remaining zero-stakes disputes of small nations around Which is the kind of disputes big nations use to influence local policies, sell weapons, create satellite states, etc, to use for their higher-stakes disputes...