4 ms·

So.. I guess this really is nostalgia for a time when you could go out and spend $10-100k, and buy a workstation that had capabilities simply not available on a

So.. I guess this really is nostalgia for a time when you could go out and spend $10-100k, and buy a workstation that had capabilities simply not available on a consumer pc. Thats kind of a hard thing to do these days.. and there doesn't seem to be a market for it. If you want to do that now you just look at “server“ class equipment, or its "workstation“ smaller siblings, to get ”truck” features... multiple cpu sockets, more ram, more pcie lanes etc. Add pcie cards to as required for the workload. All the old-school unix workstation benefits, and it will still be able to run excel and outlook, which matters in lots and lots of environments.

tyingq 6y ago
There is still a gap of sorts. Support for ECC memory in desktops is pretty hard to find, and not well documented.
- willyt 6y ago
  https://www.apple.com/uk/mac-pro/specs/ https://www.apple.com/uk/mac-pro/specs/ ‘Memory Configure up to 1.5TB of DDR4 ECC memory in 12 user-accessible DIMM slots’ And it can even cost over £10k just like the good old days.
  - znpy 6y ago
    Well SuperMicro sells workstation motherboards that you can use to assemble a workstation and they can go even higher than 1.5TB. The dumb thing is that most people compare the Mac pro (a workstation) to a consumer PC, not to workstation-class PC (ThinkStations from Lenovo or HP Z8xx from HP). Example: The HP Z8 can be equipped with 3TB of memory: https://www8.hp.com/us/en/workstations/z8.html?jumpid=in_r12139_us/en/psg/ws_desktops/products/z8-learn-more https://www8.hp.com/us/en/workstations/z8.html?jumpid=in_r12...
- tannhaeuser 6y ago
  It's been a while, but Supermicro has/had plenty of options for workstation or server mainboards with ECC, special power requirements, etc.
- fnord123 6y ago
  Not sure what you mean but if you type in "ECC motherboard" into your favourite parts supplier website then you get plenty of results.
  - tyingq 6y ago
    Yes, I can build my own. That's not comparable to the workstation heyday.
    - emteycz 6y ago
      Building your own was not an option back then, but seems to the more popular option today. It seems logical - who likes to loose warranty because of a component swap?
- wheybags 6y ago
  Every ryzen 3000 chip with an x570 board supports unregistered ecc. And earlier ryzens all have some support, but motherboard compatability is patchy. These are the most popular desktop chips on the market right now, so I wouldn't call it hard to find. Not terribly well documented is fair, as I'd say the majority of the market for these chips don't want or need ecc.
  - tyingq 6y ago
    That seems to fit my description, thanks!
- wongarsu 6y ago
  https://www.dell.com/en-us/work/shop/workstations-isv-certified/sr/workstations/intel-xeon?appliedRefinements=14602 https://www.dell.com/en-us/work/shop/workstations-isv-certif... It's reachable in about two clicks from Dell's homepage. Not that I would buy those over building myself, but it's readily available for those who want it.
- Tsiklon 6y ago
  All the big PC vendors make well supported high-end desktop computers running Intel Xeons or AMD Ryzen Threadripper processors supporting ECC Memory. Noteworthy recent models include: - HP Z4 (Single Socket CPU Intel Xeon) - HP's biggest selling workstation - Lenovo ThinkStation P620 - First workstation shipping AMD Ryzen Threadripper CPUs - Apple Mac Pro 2019 - perhaps the most "bespoke" rack mountable workstation on the market, with a neat integrated GPU/thunderbolt implementation thanks to a seriously custom PCI-E implementation One thing also of note is that a lot of these machines can be rack mounted with a rail kit from the manufacturer, either as a factory option or an after-sales accessory
- tmoertel 6y ago
  The trick I used for my last two workstations has been to buy a lower-end tower server to get ECC support for a low cost.
himinlomax 6y ago
> and it will still be able to run excel and outlook You can run those in a browser, so they're poor examples. The only packages that are really lacking are, annoyingly enough, precisely those that required workstations in the past, such as CAD tools. Even Fusion runs very poorly in Wine for some reason.
dragontamer 6y ago
> So.. I guess this really is nostalgia for a time when you could go out and spend $10-100k, and buy a workstation that had capabilities simply not available on a consumer pc. Yeah, at the end of the day, commodity GPUs with commodity CPUs make up a workstation. But that's more to do with PCs "catching up", and becoming very similar to a small workstation. After all, absurdly huge SIMD units are useful for 3d video games, and everyone wants to play video games. You can still buy the high-end GPU (A100) and/or CPUs (EPYC) if you wanted to build your own high-end workstation. But its all commodity parts these days. I think that's a net benefit.

tyingq 6y ago

There is still a gap of sorts. Support for ECC memory in desktops is pretty hard to find, and not well documented.

willyt 6y ago
https://www.apple.com/uk/mac-pro/specs/ https://www.apple.com/uk/mac-pro/specs/ ‘Memory Configure up to 1.5TB of DDR4 ECC memory in 12 user-accessible DIMM slots’ And it can even cost over £10k just like the good old days.
- znpy 6y ago
  Well SuperMicro sells workstation motherboards that you can use to assemble a workstation and they can go even higher than 1.5TB. The dumb thing is that most people compare the Mac pro (a workstation) to a consumer PC, not to workstation-class PC (ThinkStations from Lenovo or HP Z8xx from HP). Example: The HP Z8 can be equipped with 3TB of memory: https://www8.hp.com/us/en/workstations/z8.html?jumpid=in_r12139_us/en/psg/ws_desktops/products/z8-learn-more https://www8.hp.com/us/en/workstations/z8.html?jumpid=in_r12...
tannhaeuser 6y ago
It's been a while, but Supermicro has/had plenty of options for workstation or server mainboards with ECC, special power requirements, etc.
fnord123 6y ago
Not sure what you mean but if you type in "ECC motherboard" into your favourite parts supplier website then you get plenty of results.
- tyingq 6y ago
  Yes, I can build my own. That's not comparable to the workstation heyday.
  - emteycz 6y ago
    Building your own was not an option back then, but seems to the more popular option today. It seems logical - who likes to loose warranty because of a component swap?
wheybags 6y ago
Every ryzen 3000 chip with an x570 board supports unregistered ecc. And earlier ryzens all have some support, but motherboard compatability is patchy. These are the most popular desktop chips on the market right now, so I wouldn't call it hard to find. Not terribly well documented is fair, as I'd say the majority of the market for these chips don't want or need ecc.
- tyingq 6y ago
  That seems to fit my description, thanks!
wongarsu 6y ago
https://www.dell.com/en-us/work/shop/workstations-isv-certified/sr/workstations/intel-xeon?appliedRefinements=14602 https://www.dell.com/en-us/work/shop/workstations-isv-certif... It's reachable in about two clicks from Dell's homepage. Not that I would buy those over building myself, but it's readily available for those who want it.
Tsiklon 6y ago
All the big PC vendors make well supported high-end desktop computers running Intel Xeons or AMD Ryzen Threadripper processors supporting ECC Memory. Noteworthy recent models include: - HP Z4 (Single Socket CPU Intel Xeon) - HP's biggest selling workstation - Lenovo ThinkStation P620 - First workstation shipping AMD Ryzen Threadripper CPUs - Apple Mac Pro 2019 - perhaps the most "bespoke" rack mountable workstation on the market, with a neat integrated GPU/thunderbolt implementation thanks to a seriously custom PCI-E implementation One thing also of note is that a lot of these machines can be rack mounted with a rail kit from the manufacturer, either as a factory option or an after-sales accessory
tmoertel 6y ago
The trick I used for my last two workstations has been to buy a lower-end tower server to get ECC support for a low cost.

himinlomax 6y ago

> and it will still be able to run excel and outlook You can run those in a browser, so they're poor examples. The only packages that are really lacking are, annoyingly enough, precisely those that required workstations in the past, such as CAD tools. Even Fusion runs very poorly in Wine for some reason.

dragontamer 6y ago

> So.. I guess this really is nostalgia for a time when you could go out and spend $10-100k, and buy a workstation that had capabilities simply not available on a consumer pc. Yeah, at the end of the day, commodity GPUs with commodity CPUs make up a workstation. But that's more to do with PCs "catching up", and becoming very similar to a small workstation. After all, absurdly huge SIMD units are useful for 3d video games, and everyone wants to play video games. You can still buy the high-end GPU (A100) and/or CPUs (EPYC) if you wanted to build your own high-end workstation. But its all commodity parts these days. I think that's a net benefit.