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>PR phrase from the oil industry Doesn't mean it's not true. I take your point that batteries are a better option for personal automotive applications. However

>PR phrase from the oil industry Doesn't mean it's not true. I take your point that batteries are a better option for personal automotive applications. However, there are other applications where hydrogen does have advantages. In those cases, using 'blue' hydrogen (A) kick-starts the technology, because it is currently cheaper than 'green' hydrogen (B) is carbon-neutral if done correctly. For instance, consider how a renewable-heavy grid relies on gas turbines to step in when there is a 'drought' in renewable production. Using 'blue' hydrogen to replace the natural gas for those turbines would immediately get a fully reliable, zero-carbon-emission grid. Then as renewable prices continue to fall, 'green' hydrogen can close the loop & eliminate fossil fuels altogether.

Qwertious 6y ago
"For instance, consider how a renewable-heavy grid relies on gas turbines to step in when there is a 'drought' in renewable production. Using 'blue' hydrogen to replace the natural gas for those turbines would immediately get a fully reliable, zero-carbon-emission grid. Then as renewable prices continue to fall, 'green' hydrogen can close the loop & eliminate fossil fuels altogether." To be fair, in that instance the blue hydrogen would crowd out other battery investment, delaying cost reductions in actually renewable batteries.
- Animats 6y ago
  With lithium-ion batteries you get back about 95% of the energy you put in. If you're starting from electricity, a water to hydrogen to power system gets maybe a third or a half of that.[1] [1] https://insideevs.com/news/406676/battery-electric-hydrogen-fuel-cell-efficiency-comparison/ https://insideevs.com/news/406676/battery-electric-hydrogen-...
- lambdatronics 6y ago
  I'm not buying it. The lower round-trip efficiency of hydrogen means you only use it where batteries can't do the job (chemicals, air/sea travel, long-term grid storage). Batteries and hydrogen might both be competitive in certain niches (long-haul trucking, short-haul air/water, some train routes). As batteries continue to improve, they will actually cut into the addressable market for hydrogen, at least in mobility (chemicals and long-term storage are safe though).

Qwertious 6y ago

"For instance, consider how a renewable-heavy grid relies on gas turbines to step in when there is a 'drought' in renewable production. Using 'blue' hydrogen to replace the natural gas for those turbines would immediately get a fully reliable, zero-carbon-emission grid. Then as renewable prices continue to fall, 'green' hydrogen can close the loop & eliminate fossil fuels altogether." To be fair, in that instance the blue hydrogen would crowd out other battery investment, delaying cost reductions in actually renewable batteries.

Animats 6y ago
With lithium-ion batteries you get back about 95% of the energy you put in. If you're starting from electricity, a water to hydrogen to power system gets maybe a third or a half of that.[1] [1] https://insideevs.com/news/406676/battery-electric-hydrogen-fuel-cell-efficiency-comparison/ https://insideevs.com/news/406676/battery-electric-hydrogen-...
lambdatronics 6y ago
I'm not buying it. The lower round-trip efficiency of hydrogen means you only use it where batteries can't do the job (chemicals, air/sea travel, long-term grid storage). Batteries and hydrogen might both be competitive in certain niches (long-haul trucking, short-haul air/water, some train routes). As batteries continue to improve, they will actually cut into the addressable market for hydrogen, at least in mobility (chemicals and long-term storage are safe though).