6 ms·

These guys used to be on the Fuchsia subreddit fairly frequently. They were definitely far from experienced or professional. IIRC, the founder is very young and

by skavi 6y ago

These guys used to be on the Fuchsia subreddit fairly frequently. They were definitely far from experienced or professional. IIRC, the founder is very young and was very much a beginner to OS development.

est31 6y ago
Usually hn is very positive towards young folks doing stuff, and doesn't measure it by the bar that older people get measured by. Why is this different this time? Also even then, you'll probably find people doing mistakes, committing hacks, etc all the time. It's like complaining that the initial Linux release doesn't support x86... Linus didn't write it for x86 originally.
- skavi 6y ago
  I didn’t mean for my comment to be an insult. It is as close to the truth as I remember, and was offered as an explanation for the potentially low code quality mentioned earlier in the thread.
  - nmcain 6y ago
    It definitely isn't an insult :). I attempt to keep more quality and professionalism now, the earlier days of the project were, as they say, "turbulent". I do enjoy seeing criticism, as it guides us and often shows us points to improve, especially the code quality, which is being completely overhauled as we progress.
- pengaru 6y ago
  > It's like complaining that the initial Linux release doesn't support x86... Linus didn't write it for x86 originally. What the hell is this nonsense? Linus was working on a terminal program for his 386 with native x86 task switching and that's the origin story of Linux. It's clearly recorded on the wikipedia page for the kernel, and he speaks to this in Just For Fun IIRC.
  - est31 6y ago
    Hmmm I misremembered it then. Thanks for pointing this out. My general point still stands though. His initial Linux announcement E-Mail has this line: > It is NOT portable (uses 386 task switching etc), and it probably never will support anything other than AT-harddisks, as that's all I have :-(. So it wasn't very portable at the start. If you complained about it not being portable to different arches (idk which one was available at that time? SPARC? MIPS?), it would have been unfair. Everyone has to start somewhere.
    - 3np 6y ago
      Everyone has to start somewhere but the website makes it appear as if this is way more mature than a humble start.
    - ratww 6y ago
      If anything Linus was extra-humble when announcing it, kind of the opposite of what's going on here. This kind of marketing copy would be appropriate for a mature product, as it is it rubs some people the wrong way.
      - est31 6y ago
        Startups do the same thing for their first few years. Some companies never drop this attitude. Tesla for example promises a ton of stuff like self driving, or just building proper cars where it doesn't rain inside [0], but they haven't delivered none of the two yet. Like it or not, people like this kid run the world. [0]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D0EgvaKrfIs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D0EgvaKrfIs
        paulryanrogers 6y ago
        Should we all aspire to over promise and under deliver? The fact that many do and some succeed is not convincing. Generally the advice I hear from more experienced people is to under promise and over deliver.
    - 6y ago
- 3np 6y ago
  The tagline ("modern, secure, lightweight and responsive operating system, combining the best of GNU/Linux and Fuchsia OS.") is brash and sets very high standards, so that might contribute a bit. Besides, the comment you're replying on isn't really bashing them.
- ploxiln 6y ago
  I think the skepticism and criticism of this project is reasonable, given the marketing. Look at it: https://dahliaos.io/ https://dahliaos.io/ > a modern, secure, lightweight and responsive operating system, combining the best of GNU/Linux and Fuchsia OS The initial announcement and first couple years of development of linux had no logo or website or anything. Let's compare: > a (free) operating system (just a hobby, won't be big and professional like gnu) for 386(486) AT clones I usually just move on without comment ... but I'm kinda annoyed by the trend of the "npm generation" to have all this slick marketing bluster for experimental "just for learning" projects. Go ahead and compare to https://gcc.gnu.org/ https://gcc.gnu.org/ - much less slick, much less marketing bluster, much more important project. This dahliaOS has apparently recently joined the Open Invention Network "joining the likes of Google, IBM, SpaceX, Huawei, Microsoft, Yamaha, Honda, System76, GNOME, Daimler" and is accepting donations. Meanwhile, the founder says: > A lot of my stuff is learning about kernel development and is mostly what I do. I do a lot with porting devices to fuchsia, and tinkering with the zircon kernel. Thats mostly it. If there was just a repo and the readme just said that, I don't think there would be any skepticism and criticism here, just some interest and encouragement. But with all this slick marketing, skepticism and criticism is a healthy balance.
  - nmcain 6y ago
    That's perfectly understandable, I even feel that I went a little too "slick marketing" with the website, but I have extremely high, maybe even too high goals for the project.
    - 3np 6y ago
      It's fine to have high (even unrealistic!) goals, but IMO you're doing your project a disservice by presenting it as if the future's already here. I think it's a really interesting project but it's not an honest presentation (not in an exceptional way, it seems to be an existing trend in startup culture so it's understandable that people replicate it).
      - nmcain 6y ago
- tndoslhdyakwnrb 6y ago
  Being positive about young folk doesn't imply a confidence in the tech they produce. This applies just as much to Linus Torvalds as it does to everyone else: you'd be a fool to trust the disk image just based on his enthusiasm.
- matz1 6y ago
  Its the internet, i think its fair for people to criticize, likewise the author has no obligation to listen as well.
EnderNightLord 6y ago
Hi this is Camden, yeah I'm pretty young. I was very new to OS development. Some of us aren't the most experienced at this kind of stuff, but we're doing pretty well I think for what we can do. A lot of my stuff is learning about kernel development and is mostly what I do. I do a lot with porting devices to fuchsia, and tinkering with the zircon kernel. Thats mostly it.
- andylynch 6y ago
  You’re miles ahead of where I was at your age, and it looks like a very interesting project. Keep at it and good luck!
- nix23 6y ago
  Nice Project, and always remember: Have FUN!
pmarin 6y ago
How old was Linus Torvalds when started Linux?
- EnderNightLord 6y ago
  > How old was Linus Torvalds when started Linux? He was 21.
  - EnderNightLord 6y ago
    I think I was like 13/14 when I started dahlia.

by skavi 6y ago

est31 6y ago

Usually hn is very positive towards young folks doing stuff, and doesn't measure it by the bar that older people get measured by. Why is this different this time? Also even then, you'll probably find people doing mistakes, committing hacks, etc all the time. It's like complaining that the initial Linux release doesn't support x86... Linus didn't write it for x86 originally.

skavi 6y ago
I didn’t mean for my comment to be an insult. It is as close to the truth as I remember, and was offered as an explanation for the potentially low code quality mentioned earlier in the thread.
- nmcain 6y ago
  It definitely isn't an insult :). I attempt to keep more quality and professionalism now, the earlier days of the project were, as they say, "turbulent". I do enjoy seeing criticism, as it guides us and often shows us points to improve, especially the code quality, which is being completely overhauled as we progress.
pengaru 6y ago
> It's like complaining that the initial Linux release doesn't support x86... Linus didn't write it for x86 originally. What the hell is this nonsense? Linus was working on a terminal program for his 386 with native x86 task switching and that's the origin story of Linux. It's clearly recorded on the wikipedia page for the kernel, and he speaks to this in Just For Fun IIRC.
- est31 6y ago
  Hmmm I misremembered it then. Thanks for pointing this out. My general point still stands though. His initial Linux announcement E-Mail has this line: > It is NOT portable (uses 386 task switching etc), and it probably never will support anything other than AT-harddisks, as that's all I have :-(. So it wasn't very portable at the start. If you complained about it not being portable to different arches (idk which one was available at that time? SPARC? MIPS?), it would have been unfair. Everyone has to start somewhere.
  - 3np 6y ago
    Everyone has to start somewhere but the website makes it appear as if this is way more mature than a humble start.
  - ratww 6y ago
    If anything Linus was extra-humble when announcing it, kind of the opposite of what's going on here. This kind of marketing copy would be appropriate for a mature product, as it is it rubs some people the wrong way.
    - est31 6y ago
      Startups do the same thing for their first few years. Some companies never drop this attitude. Tesla for example promises a ton of stuff like self driving, or just building proper cars where it doesn't rain inside [0], but they haven't delivered none of the two yet. Like it or not, people like this kid run the world. [0]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D0EgvaKrfIs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D0EgvaKrfIs
      - paulryanrogers 6y ago
        Should we all aspire to over promise and under deliver? The fact that many do and some succeed is not convincing. Generally the advice I hear from more experienced people is to under promise and over deliver.
  - 6y ago
3np 6y ago
The tagline ("modern, secure, lightweight and responsive operating system, combining the best of GNU/Linux and Fuchsia OS.") is brash and sets very high standards, so that might contribute a bit. Besides, the comment you're replying on isn't really bashing them.
ploxiln 6y ago
I think the skepticism and criticism of this project is reasonable, given the marketing. Look at it: https://dahliaos.io/ https://dahliaos.io/ > a modern, secure, lightweight and responsive operating system, combining the best of GNU/Linux and Fuchsia OS The initial announcement and first couple years of development of linux had no logo or website or anything. Let's compare: > a (free) operating system (just a hobby, won't be big and professional like gnu) for 386(486) AT clones I usually just move on without comment ... but I'm kinda annoyed by the trend of the "npm generation" to have all this slick marketing bluster for experimental "just for learning" projects. Go ahead and compare to https://gcc.gnu.org/ https://gcc.gnu.org/ - much less slick, much less marketing bluster, much more important project. This dahliaOS has apparently recently joined the Open Invention Network "joining the likes of Google, IBM, SpaceX, Huawei, Microsoft, Yamaha, Honda, System76, GNOME, Daimler" and is accepting donations. Meanwhile, the founder says: > A lot of my stuff is learning about kernel development and is mostly what I do. I do a lot with porting devices to fuchsia, and tinkering with the zircon kernel. Thats mostly it. If there was just a repo and the readme just said that, I don't think there would be any skepticism and criticism here, just some interest and encouragement. But with all this slick marketing, skepticism and criticism is a healthy balance.
- nmcain 6y ago
  That's perfectly understandable, I even feel that I went a little too "slick marketing" with the website, but I have extremely high, maybe even too high goals for the project.
  - 3np 6y ago
    It's fine to have high (even unrealistic!) goals, but IMO you're doing your project a disservice by presenting it as if the future's already here. I think it's a really interesting project but it's not an honest presentation (not in an exceptional way, it seems to be an existing trend in startup culture so it's understandable that people replicate it).
    - nmcain 6y ago
tndoslhdyakwnrb 6y ago
Being positive about young folk doesn't imply a confidence in the tech they produce. This applies just as much to Linus Torvalds as it does to everyone else: you'd be a fool to trust the disk image just based on his enthusiasm.
matz1 6y ago
Its the internet, i think its fair for people to criticize, likewise the author has no obligation to listen as well.

EnderNightLord 6y ago

Hi this is Camden, yeah I'm pretty young. I was very new to OS development. Some of us aren't the most experienced at this kind of stuff, but we're doing pretty well I think for what we can do. A lot of my stuff is learning about kernel development and is mostly what I do. I do a lot with porting devices to fuchsia, and tinkering with the zircon kernel. Thats mostly it.

andylynch 6y ago
You’re miles ahead of where I was at your age, and it looks like a very interesting project. Keep at it and good luck!
nix23 6y ago
Nice Project, and always remember: Have FUN!

pmarin 6y ago

How old was Linus Torvalds when started Linux?

EnderNightLord 6y ago
> How old was Linus Torvalds when started Linux? He was 21.
- EnderNightLord 6y ago
  I think I was like 13/14 when I started dahlia.