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Basic economics would predict that H1B visas drive wages down. Anything different would be surprising, and would require extraordinary evidence.

by knaq 6y ago

tracer4201 6y ago
I don’t doubt that H1Bs drive wages down, but I disagree anything different is surprising or that it’s easily explained by “basic economics”. If H1Bs are being awarded to a handful of exploitative firms, then it makes sense that wages face a downward pressure. On the other hand, if H1Bs are being awarded to truly exceptional workers, then that’s a brain drain for their home country and a benefit for the host country. In the latter case, if the H1B applicant is the right employee for a job since a local candidate doesn’t meet or exceed the bar, then there isn’t much of an increase in the labor pool to drive down wages.
vaidhy 6y ago
It is not so simple. We do not act in a world with perfect information to predict the supply and demand curve. There are only 65,000 H1B in a year of which 20,000 are prioritized for people with a masters degree in US. Given the economy of size of US and the kind of roles being filled by H1B, it is doubtful that they have any meaningful impact on wages. There are bad actors who take advantage of H1B to get people to work for lower pay, but that lower pay is not at minimum wages. It has just become a talking point to take a few instances and beat a dead horse. The big stink from the Disney instance that employees were asked to train their replacement. It is a insensitive move by Disney and the contractors and they deserve to be called out. But if a job requires minimal skill and there are substitutes available, isn't it just what capitalism is all about? I do not see the same talk about H2 (agricultural workers) coming in to work in US and people arguing that they are making the farm wages depressed. How about TN1? At the end of the day, it is the kind of job that defines the value and pay for the job, not the visa. Just to note, outsourcing does play a big role in bringing a substitute product and hence making jobs redundant, but that is a different argument. Edit - spelling mistake
- toyg 6y ago
  > do not see the same talk about H2 (agricultural workers) coming in to work in US and people arguing that they are making the farm wages depressed. That’s just because people affected by that policy are not able (or educated enough) to make their argument in any forum you might be reading, and have long resigned to the idea that they are shit jobs anyway so might as well leave them to the poorest of the Earth — particularly when it means everyone benefits from low food prices. The same happens in the UK (and other wealthy European countries). Society as a whole has accepted that seasonal rural work should be left to a transient workforce from poorer areas in order to keep food prices down. Locals wouldn’t be bothered with those jobs without a significant wage increase, which would push prices up quite dramatically. Even in the context of an isolationist and xenophobic wave, it was always assumed the UK agri sector would be exempted by migration restrictions - and effectively it has been. In many ways, it’s a more honest and frank argument than in other sectors, in its brutality. I’m a migrant myself but I’ve long come to the conclusion that we should be a bit more honest in this particular debate. Yes, we do keep salaries down, which increases profitability and competitiveness for companies, keeping the supply-side of the economy well-lubricated in the age of global competition. This is largely necessary, unless you want to stagnate like early-00s Japan. It just has to be compensated with higher corporate taxes and more quality services / low prices for everyone, to keep society fair.
  - GoblinSlayer 6y ago
    There's belief that lack of demand from locals is prejudice, when imported workforce is a system and established business processes, one can't really go and change this system.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]

Basic economics would predict that H1B visas drive wages down. Anything different would be surprising, and would require extraordinary evidence.

by knaq 6y ago

Basic economics would predict that H1B visas drive wages down. Anything different would be surprising, and would require extraordinary evidence.

tracer4201 6y ago

I don’t doubt that H1Bs drive wages down, but I disagree anything different is surprising or that it’s easily explained by “basic economics”. If H1Bs are being awarded to a handful of exploitative firms, then it makes sense that wages face a downward pressure. On the other hand, if H1Bs are being awarded to truly exceptional workers, then that’s a brain drain for their home country and a benefit for the host country. In the latter case, if the H1B applicant is the right employee for a job since a local candidate doesn’t meet or exceed the bar, then there isn’t much of an increase in the labor pool to drive down wages.

vaidhy 6y ago

It is not so simple. We do not act in a world with perfect information to predict the supply and demand curve. There are only 65,000 H1B in a year of which 20,000 are prioritized for people with a masters degree in US. Given the economy of size of US and the kind of roles being filled by H1B, it is doubtful that they have any meaningful impact on wages. There are bad actors who take advantage of H1B to get people to work for lower pay, but that lower pay is not at minimum wages. It has just become a talking point to take a few instances and beat a dead horse. The big stink from the Disney instance that employees were asked to train their replacement. It is a insensitive move by Disney and the contractors and they deserve to be called out. But if a job requires minimal skill and there are substitutes available, isn't it just what capitalism is all about? I do not see the same talk about H2 (agricultural workers) coming in to work in US and people arguing that they are making the farm wages depressed. How about TN1? At the end of the day, it is the kind of job that defines the value and pay for the job, not the visa. Just to note, outsourcing does play a big role in bringing a substitute product and hence making jobs redundant, but that is a different argument. Edit - spelling mistake

toyg 6y ago
> do not see the same talk about H2 (agricultural workers) coming in to work in US and people arguing that they are making the farm wages depressed. That’s just because people affected by that policy are not able (or educated enough) to make their argument in any forum you might be reading, and have long resigned to the idea that they are shit jobs anyway so might as well leave them to the poorest of the Earth — particularly when it means everyone benefits from low food prices. The same happens in the UK (and other wealthy European countries). Society as a whole has accepted that seasonal rural work should be left to a transient workforce from poorer areas in order to keep food prices down. Locals wouldn’t be bothered with those jobs without a significant wage increase, which would push prices up quite dramatically. Even in the context of an isolationist and xenophobic wave, it was always assumed the UK agri sector would be exempted by migration restrictions - and effectively it has been. In many ways, it’s a more honest and frank argument than in other sectors, in its brutality. I’m a migrant myself but I’ve long come to the conclusion that we should be a bit more honest in this particular debate. Yes, we do keep salaries down, which increases profitability and competitiveness for companies, keeping the supply-side of the economy well-lubricated in the age of global competition. This is largely necessary, unless you want to stagnate like early-00s Japan. It just has to be compensated with higher corporate taxes and more quality services / low prices for everyone, to keep society fair.
- GoblinSlayer 6y ago
  There's belief that lack of demand from locals is prejudice, when imported workforce is a system and established business processes, one can't really go and change this system.

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]