12 ms·
Remove auto renew from my account
- ehsankia 6y agoI'm so tired of these dark patterns. Like NYT not letting you unsubscribe without contacting customer support. Same with many of the food subscription services. For me this is a instant red flag. I refuse to use any services that rely on such tactics to make it as hard as possible for users to leave. It should be downright illegal.
- sundvor 6y agoThis is why I actually like using PayPal for my payments. I hold ALL the power then, I can instantly cancel the auto renewal whenever I feel like it.
- scrapcode 6y agoAmen to this. It's a pain as a seller, but it works out for them because I use PayPal whenever possible on a subscription requirement solely because of this. Why is this so hard?
- inetknght 6y agoThat is until PayPal withholds funds paid to you and cancels your account for arbitrary reasons.
- strombofulous 6y agoThis is only a problem as a seller, if you only use it to buy things then - You are the customer (paypal makes money from transaction fees, and customers almost always have the option to not use paypal) - Typically you don't store money in your account, so you would at most lose the ability to pay with paypal
- TristanBall 6y agoDo this with Teamviewer, without formally terminating the account, and they'll chase you for it, including passing your case on to a legal firm ( at least, here in Australia they did ) I sent a fairly polite letter back explaining id long since stopped using the product, and all they were doing now was destroying any residual good will they had. I never heard anything back.
- sundvor 6y agoWow. The last of a dying breed then! If I ever see them come up as an option I'll do well to remember this. Thanks!
- dvfjsdhgfv 6y agoThe only problem is that some companies don't offer Paypal as a payment option.
- sundvor 6y agoTrue. Then there's usually someone else that does.
- ehsankia 6y agoHah, this is exactly how I ended up "unsubscribing" from the NYT. I first migrated my subscription from my credit card to my paypal, then used Paypal to block the payment. They then spent the next week sending me half a dozen emails begging me to re-enable payment, which I marked all as spam in Gmail.
- consumer451 6y agoI’ve been thinking that a dark pattern index would be really neat. Basically name and shame with deep dives. Each product is given a 1-10 value for assholery. Would anyone else find that useful?
- abnercoimbre 6y agoDark Patterns Org [0] has a dedicated Hall of Shame. I'm all for having several places to call these patterns out though. [0] https://darkpatterns.org/ https://darkpatterns.org/
- consumer451 6y agoI saw that site, but that’s the best effort so far, correct? I feel like this might be a Patreon-friendly thing.. funding the work to have it updated at least monthly with a new deep dive and rating. Having it updated regularly seems like an important component to me.
- blahblaaa 6y agoI’m sure there is a market but it’s not the folk that are not in computer software prob. I’m sure UI/UX Designers would love to get their hands on a list like this tho...and exploit it of course. I used to work at a hedge fund in Paris. One day I learned many of their clients were named as contributors to the genocide in rewanda in the 90s. I had a good friend in Switzerland who’s family escaped all that. Went to visit him one time and he insisted I sleep in his bed which was pretty much a board, while he slept on the floor. I had problems working the next day to say the least. I asked the other employees what they thought and the answer was, “if you don’t do it, someone else will”. I think there are always great ideas like the one you presented, but telling sure won’t do anything. You have to show. You have to make it obvious/more beneficial why someone should be interested in what you’re doing than just because it’s good to do. It’s literally the model, in my opinion, of sustainability. Make something that is beneficial and makes money. It’s a hard business case...but I’ve started and been successful with many companies and consulting projects that have achieved this...
- 6y ago
- hokumguru 6y agoLike it or not, this is one of the reasons Apple's payment restrictions on the App Store are a good thing for consumers - they force all subscriptions to go through one easily accessible and cancellable portal.
- Ozzie_osman 6y agoI don't like it at all. They take a forced 30% cut to "protect" me from the bad guys?
- fiddlerwoaroof 6y agoFrom my perspective as a user, that 30% cut is the cost of getting my business. I already trust Apple for software update and other cloud storage and I’d prefer not to have to vet another entity for handling my payments.
- lotsofpulp 6y ago30% is cheaper than my time and inconvenience.
- NeutronStar 6y agoIs 30% of what you install or pay for fraudulent?
- julianlam 6y agoIt's also 10x the cut from a credit card processor... But sure, give away a significant part of your profit...
- maccard 6y agoBecause it's not just the cut from a credit card processor. It's also fraud handling, forex, invoicing, marketing, distribution, and fees for apple to operate the marketplace, plus their cut. I'm not going to defend 30% as the number, nor the _enforced_ 30% cut, but the 10x cut is not an apples to apples comparison. It's the equivalent of saying "just use OVH instead of AWS"
- pfranz 6y agoMy understanding is that many countries, like some in Europe, have a law saying you must be able to cancel using the same medium you used to subscribe. So if you signed up online, you can cancel online. Same with phone, etc. I think I've heard of similar proposals in the US Congress...but nothing that looks close to passing.
- colejohnson66 6y agoLast I heard, California was working on a law similar to that
- intellirogue 6y agoYes, and TeamViewer do in fact allow you to cancel online via a portal if you live in a jurisdiction that requires it. For everyone else, they use this dark pattern. Makes it very clear that they're just trying to scam anyone they can legally get away with.
- artursapek 6y agoWSJ does it, too. And the NYT boasts rising subscription numbers, hah. I wonder what % of those are people who tried and failed to cancel.
- jen729w 6y agoAnd this directly bites the NYT because, if anyone there is reading, I saw your excellent AU$1/week offer just yesterday, almost signed up, then thought, nah, I’ve heard that this is a pain in the ass to cancel. Yeah yeah they probably make more $$ from the people who forget to cancel. Screw ‘em.
- ehsankia 6y agoYep, I used to be a subscriber and unsubscribed. I like their work but I do not stand for dark patterns.
- m463 6y agoYou can't port your cellphone number without a few things - name, address and account number. Guess what -- cellphone account numbers are very hard to find nowadays. They don't give it out without contacting someone directly and getting transferred to someone who asks "Just curious, can I ask why you want your account number?"
- lotsofpulp 6y agoIs it not on your monthly statement? ATT has it on there. Also, given the security implications of losing your phone number, and how SMS 2FA is basically considered a legal authorization, I feel like even more friction is warranted for phone number transfers.
- m463 6y agoA friend was trying to switch from virgin mobile and they hide the account number from day 1 and you have to talk to a representative to get it.
- xerxesaa 6y agoI regularly use privacy.com when I have such concerns. Great service. (I am not affiliated with them in any way. Just a happy customer.)
- goatinaboat 6y agoLike NYT not letting you unsubscribe without contacting customer support Use PayPal as the intermediary and cancel the payment in there.
- ehsankia 6y agoI actually did exactly that :) Switched payment to paypal and then canceled. They then spent the next week sending me over 6 emails begging me to fix my payment.
- saltedonion 6y agoThanks for sharing. I will not be using them in the future.
- shiftpgdn 6y agoTeamviewer is a company that has absolutely thrown their reputation into the gutter after it came out their service was compromised and they continued to deny it. It's also beyond irritating that the $700 "owned lifetime" license I bought in 2014 no longer works because they shut down the servers specifically for older versions.
- notsuoh 6y agoIt's some trouble, but a quick filing in your local small claims court for the $700 would be an interesting way to get your money back and see how it plays out.
- slimsag 6y agoWouldn't they just not show up, and pay the $700 charge?
- m-p-3 6y agoSounds like a win then.
- adrr 6y agoHow do you collect from a foreign company? If they don’t have a local presence, there’s no way to get the money.
- toomuchtodo 6y agoTeamViewer appears to have a US presence (and likely, assets worth at least $700 plus small claims costs for seizure by the Pinellas County sheriff’s dept) in Clearwater, FL. Probably not local to OP, but more local than Germany (where TeamViewer is HQd).
- notsuoh 6y agoMost likely. And in any case, most small claims courts don't allow the representation by counsel, and as such they're more lenient about complaints submitted. File, serve Team Viewer, show up on day of, collect default judgment or argue why lifetime means lifetime.
- yreg 6y agoAnother reason to use disposable debit cards. Why should TeamViewer have the ability to take money from my account without my consent?
- mceachen 6y agoWhere do you get your disposable credit cards? All the major US credit cards cancelled their virtual account number programs ages ago. Chase had grandfathered it into ancient accounts, but unceremoniously cancelled it last month. Also: depending on the bank, they might not respect the VAN limits that you set up, and just let the charge go through anyway. Just something to watch for. (FWIW I helped build a VAN backend for Wells almost 20 years ago).
- strombofulous 6y agoMost Citi credit cards have this, and they just updated from a flash client so it will probably be supported for a few more years (otherwise Flash ELOing would be a great time to end the program)
- LVB 6y agoWhilst not a credit card per se, I’ve been satisfied with privacy.com for temp numbers that I’ve used for all sorts of subscriptions that have user hostile cancellation policies.
- lifeformed 6y agoCheck out privacy.com
- abnercoimbre 6y agoI can vouch for this service as it has saved my butt often. You can link your bank account and generate your virtual cards, set limits on them, close it off automatically after a single transaction, etc.
- sillysaurusx 6y agoprivacy.com gang checking in. Use it, love it, wonder how you got by without it. I create a new card for literally every online transaction at a different website. So I would mak a teamviewer card with $10/mo monthly limit (or whatever threshold you want). It’s also handy for signing up to new services that let you try for 7 days then bill you. Can’t bill me! The card has no money on it, ha ha! (You can specify $5 total limit for example.)
- timdorr 6y agoI dropped TeamViewer after their security and pricing shenanigans, and switched over to AnyDesk. Same thing, but free for personal use (cheaper for commercial), easier to use interface, and what seems to be higher quality software.
- kd913 6y agoWhy would you trust 3rd party solutions when windows already has solutions such as QuickAssist/RDP? QuickAssist is design to fit the exact niche teamviewer was providing by helpign with support. RDP may be a bit more of a faffle to setup, but I have global permanent access for about 60 quid. Mainly by setting up a VPN via wireguard.
- alteria 6y agoI don't know if this is a recent trend, or if I've only experienced negative things in the past year or two, (perhaps in the lead up to their IPO?), but I ended up switching away from them. They closed my account because they suspected commercial use. If I wanted to re-open it, I would need to send in a picture of my ID, and sign some legal documents attesting to my continued non-commercial use or something. They might not care about personal users because we don't pay, but I did end up switching to different software for the commercial projects I use remote access software on.
- tropdrop 6y agoI'm surprised the company chose this route, and not Adobe's (e.g. Illustrator): to let you cancel auto-renewal any time, but to charge you a cancellation fee that is more than 2x your per month membership fee... unless you wait to cancel EXACTLY at the last month of your 12 month membership, when there is no penalty but by which point you'll probably forget and will automatically be enrolled in another year, facing the same perverse financial incentive as before.
- justinclift 6y ago> ... charge you a cancellation fee that is more than 2x your per month membership fee. Isn't the cancellation fee "just" (!) the balance of your 12 month membership fees (in one lump sum)?
- dylz 6y agoYes. You sign up for 12 mo contract and pay it off in one lump sum for cancel.
- tupputuppu 6y agoJust tell them there's a bug and the software isn't working. They'll cancel in the middle of your subscription period.
- bmarquez 6y agoTeamviewer has a terrible reputation. I dropped Teamviewer after they sent threatening emails claiming I violated their EULA. I got emails falsely claiming I was using it for commercial use, when I hadn't logged in for months. Ended up switching to Anydesk, which doesn't require an account to set up (meaning they can't spy on me or "analyse my use" as per the email below) >WARNING: Possible Violation of EULA >We’re contacting you as part of a license audit in accordance with paragraph 3.9 of the TeamViewer End User License Agreement (EULA). The EULA regulates the use of TeamViewer software, and by downloading TeamViewer, you have accepted the terms of our EULA. >Based on an analysis of your TeamViewer account usage, we have detected possible use in a commercial context. As our EULA states, a paid license is required for commercial use.
- evad3r 6y agoAlso pretty cool that AnyDesk is created by the original developers of TeamViewer.
- iamcreasy 6y agoI curious - but how does a company legally prevents its employee from starting a competitor product given that the employee might have insider information?
- timpattinson 6y agousing a non-compete agreement [1] in the employment contract or as a condition for a severance package, etc. May or may not be enforceable depending on a million different factors. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-compete_clause https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-compete_clause
- skrause 6y agoSince TeamViewer is a German company I looked up the rules for a non-compete clause in Germany (https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wettbewerbsverbot#Nach_Beendigung_des_Arbeitsverh%C3%A4ltnisses_(Nachvertragliches_Wettbewerbsverbot) https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wettbewerbsverbot#Nach_Beendig...): 1. It can only be valid for up to two years after your employment ends. 2. Your former employer has to continue to pay you at least half of your last salary during the non-compete time.
- edoceo 6y agoWhat's got two thumbs, speaks French and loves SimpleHelp as a replacement for that turd that is TeamViewer? C'est Moi! OTP for a license, host the server on my Infra ($5/mo) and works for 100% of my needs (training, remote support). And once, ages ago, I asked for help to tune up their SSL settings, it wasn't in the docs. Like two days later they closed my ticket - because they had updated their docs and also sent me a direct email, asking if it was good (it was).
- kimi 6y agoWhile we are ex-users too, I must say that after the card was charged, I told them it was a mistake and I wanted to cancel, and they rolled back the transaction.
- hnick 6y agoAh, better than Leadpages for us. No renewal reminder email, no invoice email when charging it, just found out when doing quarterly reconciliation. Too late, too bad.
- bartvk 6y agoAnyDesk is similar to TeamViewer, and I believe set up by engineers that previously worked at TeamViewer. The free version is not using advertisements, just limited in features. I like it a lot.
- StavrosK 6y agoPlus it's only one or two MB total, versus the unholy agglomeration of insanity that is TeamViewer.
- perryizgr8 6y agoI would deal with this sort of problem like so: 1. Send an email to TV support stating my intention to disable the auto renew. 2. Tell my CC issuer to block any auto payments to TeamViewer. 3. If 2 is not possible, dispute any TeamViewer charge, report it as unauthorized (which it is). If more people do this CC companies will pressurize TV to mend their ways or block them from receiving CC payments.
- xlii 6y agoYup. Chargeback and disputes _hurt_ a lot. Even small amount of disputes might be enough for the payment processor to raise the handling rates which might translate in thousands of dollars of loss monthly. If you sent them an e-mail notifying that if they charge you once again you'll dispute the charge, they'll (my guess begrudgingly) comply. Worked with Adobe few years back.
- diminish 6y agoGrowth teams all over the SaaS landscape, work on the gray area, to push more $s, by usually anti-customer.
- lk23jlkoij 6y agoI have a horrific experience with TeamViewer as well and will never ever use them again! I just ordered it for a year and then they extended the contract without asking me or anything and just charged my credit card. SCAM COMPANY!!!
- thrownaway954 6y agoeither cancel the card you used, call the bank and have them disallow the charge to the card or issue a charge back. don't ever feel that a company leaves you no choice in paying them.
- jordanpg 6y agoEasy way to implement this: https://privacy.com/ https://privacy.com/
- jordanpg 6y agoThere should be a federal law against auto-renew by default. Whenever possible, I try to avoid doing business with companies that do this (which are many). The worst dark pattern, IMHO.
- rcMgD2BwE72F 6y agoI manage a subscription product without auto renew. The number of customers who don't care about all the notification regarding upcoming expiry is staggering. I keep assisting them to renew during the grace period, while they put the end-users at risk of software failure. They expect us to work for them (unpaid customers) and manage all the problems that come with late rewenal (speedy releases, no testing, urgent support requests, etc). IMO we should enable auto renewal just to help them avoid this unbearable situation.
- jordanpg 6y agoI'm not saying there should be no auto-renew, only that it should be opt-in. Auto-renew as an available option makes all kinds of sense.
- tsjq 6y agoI read that thread. That's terrible. Nasty.