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What a waste. If anything it should end up in New Jersey.
by fennecfoxen 6y ago
What a waste. If anything it should end up in New Jersey.
- jcranmer 6y agoEvery fantasy subway map I've seen has extended the 7 into New Jersey. Extending the 7 down into Chelsea makes no sense, because you already have 4-track subway trunks on 8th and 7th, and the island is narrowing as you head downtown. If you need another Midtown N-S trunk, the logical choice is the 2nd Ave, as the east side is underserved (and that side of the island bulges out as you head downtown instead of disappearing). Even then, the return on investment for the southern portions of the 2nd Ave Subway is kind of shaky.
- Schiendelman 6y agoLet me know when New Jersey is willing to have the line come to them. You recall what happened...
- jcranmer 6y agoYeah, I'm aware that ARC was cancelled. The fact that a trans-Hudson subway extension is not really viable anytime in the next few decades doesn't mean that the extension to Chelsea is an alternative worth building, though; it just means that the reality is going to be that Hudson Yards will be a terminus for quite some time.
- kevin_thibedeau 6y agoThey have to dig two new tunnels in the next 20 years. Just sweeten the deal and make it three. The new guy could make it happen sooner. The bigger deal is that MTA will have to implement zoned fares to keep from undercutting NJT. That is the unspoken feature that OMNY will be bringing to the city.
- Schiendelman 6y agoThat’s a great point and one I hadn’t considered! I’m certainly hopeful for a NJ extension too, just not optimistic.
- bobthepanda 6y agoThe other big deal is that the MTA is not fully funded by fares, and getting bi-state coordination on dedicated taxes is a fool's errand (see: WMATA in DC) If New Jersey needs a subway tunnel across the Hudson, PATH would probably be a better place to start.
- bobthepanda 6y agoThe Chelsea plan is mostly to link up 7+L, though preferably you'd bring the L up and through the Far West Side. The L's higher capacity and it could use a new, higher throughput terminal.
- Schiendelman 6y agoEither way. But the 7 already points south now!
- jcranmer 6y agoLinking the 7 and L is an even more ??? idea, because the 7 and L are different loading gauges, and the fact that both originate on the east side of the East River means anything that now becomes a 1-seat ride takes too long to be worth actually sitting in 1 seat for that long.
- fennecfoxen 6y agoI think he's suggesting linking them for a transfer. Which doesn't actually make sense either, because the only new destination this opens up that saves a transfer is Hudson Yards.
- bobthepanda 6y agoHudson Yards is the second or third largest office submarket in Manhattan, the one with the newest spec towers, and on top of that is bigger than most American downtowns are. Long term the L should be extended north, at least to Columbus Circle if not beyond; the Far West Side lacks subway service, and currently the 7th Avenue Express (2/3) is also considered to be above capacity. Or it was in a pre-COVID world, anyways.
- Schiendelman 6y agoI completely agree.