4 ms·

I regular work with and PM projects using union labor in NYC. The rates here are about what I would expect for take-home pay. I.e. they take home (pre-tax) clos

I regular work with and PM projects using union labor in NYC. The rates here are about what I would expect for take-home pay. I.e. they take home (pre-tax) closer to $70/hr than $30/hr. One thing not made clear in the article is if the hourly rates they quote are pre or post benefits. When I budget out projects, my spreadsheets have two columns, hourly wage, and hourly + benefits. Depending on the particular union, the benefits can be as high as 60%. So the real cost to me, the PM, is $70+$42 = $112/hour straight time.

pwinnski 6y ago
Wow, seems like I was misinformed, then. That seems unsustainable to me, but I guess time will tell.
- burntwater 6y ago
  It can certainly be painful from a management standpoint. But actually the biggest pain point isn't the hourly wages -- we all love to earn money, after all. The biggest pain point is labor minimums. If you need to hire from Department A, you need to hire a minimum of 3 people even when only 1 is needed. Or if you need to hire from Departments A and B, then you're required to also hire Departments C, D, and E (all with their minimum crew requirements). It makes for accomplishing smaller projects near prohibitively expensive. And typically you can't gang together multiple projects in order to optimize labor usage. Honestly, I have very mixed feelings about the arrangements I have to work with.
  - skeletal88 6y ago
    So this is the real reason for high costs in construction in the US. Absurd "labor minimums" ? Haven't heard about anything like this here in Europe..
  - someguydave 6y ago
    Are those labor minimums union rules or are they imposed by government regulation?
    - pwinnski 6y ago
      Good question. I assumed union rules, but I could see OSHA being the factor here, too.
    - burntwater 6y ago
      For me, they're negotiated union rules.
      - someguydave 6y ago
        Why can’t you hire non-union labor? Is it unavailable?

pwinnski 6y ago

Wow, seems like I was misinformed, then. That seems unsustainable to me, but I guess time will tell.

burntwater 6y ago
It can certainly be painful from a management standpoint. But actually the biggest pain point isn't the hourly wages -- we all love to earn money, after all. The biggest pain point is labor minimums. If you need to hire from Department A, you need to hire a minimum of 3 people even when only 1 is needed. Or if you need to hire from Departments A and B, then you're required to also hire Departments C, D, and E (all with their minimum crew requirements). It makes for accomplishing smaller projects near prohibitively expensive. And typically you can't gang together multiple projects in order to optimize labor usage. Honestly, I have very mixed feelings about the arrangements I have to work with.
- skeletal88 6y ago
  So this is the real reason for high costs in construction in the US. Absurd "labor minimums" ? Haven't heard about anything like this here in Europe..
- someguydave 6y ago
  Are those labor minimums union rules or are they imposed by government regulation?
  - pwinnski 6y ago
    Good question. I assumed union rules, but I could see OSHA being the factor here, too.
  - burntwater 6y ago
    For me, they're negotiated union rules.
    - someguydave 6y ago
      Why can’t you hire non-union labor? Is it unavailable?