4 ms·

If anything, Arm MacBooks have a huge advantage over my current (old) ThinkPad—battery life and performance per watt will be significantly better. I haven't rea

by snazz 6y ago

If anything, Arm MacBooks have a huge advantage over my current (old) ThinkPad—battery life and performance per watt will be significantly better. I haven't read much more about the new virtualization tech that was announced at WWDC, but that's also exciting for running Linux on the Mac. What about Arm Macs pushes you away from the platform?

andrekandre 6y ago
not the op, but for me... 1. the big sur ui is not very attractive (i know it sounds arbitrary, but big sur just looks very non-desktop, very fischer price, and i have no alterantive since catalina wont be supported) 2. virtualization for x86_64 apps, that wont last forever, and at some point those x86 binaries wont work anymore (i already lost a ton of apps with catalina...) 3. for my work i already need vmware alot, and the idea of running even half-speed at best is a non-starter -- that being said, as a consummer oriented device, or an iphone/ipad app developer machine i think its defintely going to do well
- claudeganon 6y ago
  Also, Apple services in Big Sur circumventing VPNs and Little Snitch is a complete nonstarter for me. I’m staying on Catalina with an Intel Mac for the foreseeable future.
- ricketycricket 6y ago
  VMWare won't run x86 Windows or Linux at all, much less at half speed: https://developer.apple.com/documentation/apple_silicon/about_the_rosetta_translation_environment https://developer.apple.com/documentation/apple_silicon/abou...
- coldtea 6y ago
  >1. the big sur ui is not very attractive (i know it sounds arbitrary, but big sur just looks very non-desktop, very fischer price, and i have no alterantive since catalina wont be supported) I find these "this look fischer price/non-desktop" like hearing goth teenagers wanting something darker and more edgy -- well, the "pro" mentality equivalent, where if it doesn't look boring and beize it's not good. It's a mighty fine look, nothing fischer prize about it, and hardly that different from the previous iteration. If anything it much less fischer prize than the original Aqua interface and its 4-5 next iterations, which was praised as a great looking ("lickable") UI.
  - andrekandre 6y ago
    to be fair, i dont mind the colorfulness or any of that, but the huge bezels, margins and font sizes are a huge waste of space in a desktop environment its kind of obvious that for the need to compromise the ui of mac in order for ipad/iphone apps to look "at home" and im sure in apples calculus its worth the hit in the near term, but for this person its a bit too far... *ive been using the big sur betas on and off for a while now > Aqua interface and its 4-5 next iterations, which was praised as a great looking sure, aqua got a lot better after the next iterations, so lets keep an eye out and see what happens...
    - coldtea 6y ago
      >its kind of obvious that for the need to compromise the ui of mac in order for ipad/iphone apps to look "at home" I think AS laptops are also getting touchscreens (now or on the first design refresh). But I welcome bigger screen elements myself, it means better hit targets (Fitt's law), and less cluttered UIs -- easier on the eyes too. As for the wasted space, it's not like they're removing menu items or icons or cutting out features to accomondate the larger buttons. Just larger looking bezels and edges.
      - asdff 6y ago
        If that's the reason why, then I guess I don't want a touch screen mac. Looking at my screen now, I would fat finger just about everything if it was a touch screen as sensitive as my iPhone (where I fat finger quite a few of things, and my fingers are really quite narrow). The mouse is a precision instrument. Your finger is not. I'd hate for the UI to suffer due to catering toward a less precise input I have no intention of ever using.
        coldtea 6y ago
        Well, a UI requiring less precision to accomondate fingers wouldn't suffer for mouse use. If anything, it's the contrary: it would become easier to use with the higher precision mouse, because targers would be even larger. The key insight here is that they wont make the mouse lose precision: instead, they make the targets the mouse has to hit bigger -- which, given that the mouse retains the same precision, makes it even easier to hit them!
- socialdemocrat 6y ago
  But the server space will within a few years begin transition to ARM as well . Look at Amazons graviton ARM cloud offerings. It beats x86 on bang for buck.
ricketycricket 6y ago
You'll have to run ARM linux on the Mac. x86 Linux and Windows cannot be virtualized with Apple's Rosetta 2: https://developer.apple.com/documentation/apple_silicon/about_the_rosetta_translation_environment https://developer.apple.com/documentation/apple_silicon/abou...
- Philadelphia 6y ago
  That doesn’t mean they can’t be virtualized by a third party product. We had x86 emulators on PowerPC Macs.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
unicornporn 6y ago
> What about Arm Macs pushes you away from the platform? I need to be able to run Windows in Fusion or Parallels without emulating x86.

by snazz 6y ago

andrekandre 6y ago

not the op, but for me... 1. the big sur ui is not very attractive (i know it sounds arbitrary, but big sur just looks very non-desktop, very fischer price, and i have no alterantive since catalina wont be supported) 2. virtualization for x86_64 apps, that wont last forever, and at some point those x86 binaries wont work anymore (i already lost a ton of apps with catalina...) 3. for my work i already need vmware alot, and the idea of running even half-speed at best is a non-starter -- that being said, as a consummer oriented device, or an iphone/ipad app developer machine i think its defintely going to do well

claudeganon 6y ago
Also, Apple services in Big Sur circumventing VPNs and Little Snitch is a complete nonstarter for me. I’m staying on Catalina with an Intel Mac for the foreseeable future.
ricketycricket 6y ago
VMWare won't run x86 Windows or Linux at all, much less at half speed: https://developer.apple.com/documentation/apple_silicon/about_the_rosetta_translation_environment https://developer.apple.com/documentation/apple_silicon/abou...
coldtea 6y ago
>1. the big sur ui is not very attractive (i know it sounds arbitrary, but big sur just looks very non-desktop, very fischer price, and i have no alterantive since catalina wont be supported) I find these "this look fischer price/non-desktop" like hearing goth teenagers wanting something darker and more edgy -- well, the "pro" mentality equivalent, where if it doesn't look boring and beize it's not good. It's a mighty fine look, nothing fischer prize about it, and hardly that different from the previous iteration. If anything it much less fischer prize than the original Aqua interface and its 4-5 next iterations, which was praised as a great looking ("lickable") UI.
- andrekandre 6y ago
  to be fair, i dont mind the colorfulness or any of that, but the huge bezels, margins and font sizes are a huge waste of space in a desktop environment its kind of obvious that for the need to compromise the ui of mac in order for ipad/iphone apps to look "at home" and im sure in apples calculus its worth the hit in the near term, but for this person its a bit too far... *ive been using the big sur betas on and off for a while now > Aqua interface and its 4-5 next iterations, which was praised as a great looking sure, aqua got a lot better after the next iterations, so lets keep an eye out and see what happens...
  - coldtea 6y ago
    >its kind of obvious that for the need to compromise the ui of mac in order for ipad/iphone apps to look "at home" I think AS laptops are also getting touchscreens (now or on the first design refresh). But I welcome bigger screen elements myself, it means better hit targets (Fitt's law), and less cluttered UIs -- easier on the eyes too. As for the wasted space, it's not like they're removing menu items or icons or cutting out features to accomondate the larger buttons. Just larger looking bezels and edges.
    - asdff 6y ago
      If that's the reason why, then I guess I don't want a touch screen mac. Looking at my screen now, I would fat finger just about everything if it was a touch screen as sensitive as my iPhone (where I fat finger quite a few of things, and my fingers are really quite narrow). The mouse is a precision instrument. Your finger is not. I'd hate for the UI to suffer due to catering toward a less precise input I have no intention of ever using.
      - coldtea 6y ago
        Well, a UI requiring less precision to accomondate fingers wouldn't suffer for mouse use. If anything, it's the contrary: it would become easier to use with the higher precision mouse, because targers would be even larger. The key insight here is that they wont make the mouse lose precision: instead, they make the targets the mouse has to hit bigger -- which, given that the mouse retains the same precision, makes it even easier to hit them!
socialdemocrat 6y ago
But the server space will within a few years begin transition to ARM as well . Look at Amazons graviton ARM cloud offerings. It beats x86 on bang for buck.

ricketycricket 6y ago

You'll have to run ARM linux on the Mac. x86 Linux and Windows cannot be virtualized with Apple's Rosetta 2: https://developer.apple.com/documentation/apple_silicon/about_the_rosetta_translation_environment https://developer.apple.com/documentation/apple_silicon/abou...

Philadelphia 6y ago
That doesn’t mean they can’t be virtualized by a third party product. We had x86 emulators on PowerPC Macs.

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

unicornporn 6y ago

> What about Arm Macs pushes you away from the platform? I need to be able to run Windows in Fusion or Parallels without emulating x86.