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There is more to democracy and freedom than one (or two if you choose to include guns) sets of freedom. Practically speaking, there is no differences in the fr

There is more to democracy and freedom than one (or two if you choose to include guns) sets of freedom. Practically speaking, there is no differences in the freedom Canadian and European citizens have regarding expression compared to Americans even though EFFECTIVELY certain types of speech are restricted (e.g. holocaust denial) That is because the list of restricted speech is incredibly miniscule, and there are strong protections in place otherwise that prevent a "slippery slope" situation from occurring. ("First you ban me from freely speaking about the holocaust not happening, next you ban me from criticizing the president!") Practically, non-US democracies have demonstrated a stronger commitment freedom of assembly and freedom of the press than the US has over the last 4 years. The only difference is that in the US these protections are guaranteed by an effectively "sacred document" that supercedes all laws (The constitution) But it is more and more clear that that is a bug not a feature of the system, and is causing legitimate harm as your supreme court is getting stacked with "textualist originalists" who think that the wisdom of slave-owning cotton farmers applies unquestionably to 21st century technology and societal concerns. And this is before we even get into the question of what it means for something to be "democratic", which is to say there is a "Democratic electoral process", which we're about to find out just how much the US process has been degraded as seemingly HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS of people's votes will either be not counted, or will be denied the opportunity to vote. What is happening in the US would be impossible in any other Western Democracy.

selectodude 6y ago
There's no question that the US has more voter suppression issues than Europe, but it's foolish to behave as if it's something that isn't to be worried about. https://www.ips-journal.eu/topics/european-union/voter-suppression-comes-to-europe-3999/ https://www.ips-journal.eu/topics/european-union/voter-suppr...
- eznzt 6y ago
  Is it completely impopular? It is my opinion that expats should not be allowed to vote. I've asked around and most people seem to disagree, though.
bleepblorp 6y ago
Point of order: the US is far from unique in having a written constitution. Most developed countries have a written constitution that, among other things, guarantees (on paper) basic rights to their citizens. The only exception is the UK, which does not have a single written constitutional document. As you say, the commitment to basic democratic rights is considerably stronger in other western countries than in the US. The kind of abuses the Republican party habitually conducts with the aim of disenfranchising Democratic voters would not be tolerated elsewhere; this is reflected by the fact that the US constitution only explicitly prohibits certain forms of electoral discrimination (i.e. it's a blacklist policy) but does not explicitly grant a right to vote.
refurb 6y ago
This seems really handwavy. “Yes you have fewer free speech rights in Europe and Canada but that doesn’t actually matter”
- deanCommie 6y ago
  Not any more handwavy than "These countries don't have free speech rights, therefore they're not actually democratic"?
balfirevic 6y ago
In Croatia, which is in Europe (and part of EU), you will get fined if you: 1) Post an approving image of weed on Facebook 2) Write ACAB on Twitter (this one also got a journalist arrested) 3) Have a shirt that says "ruling party - thieves" (which, as an aside, is pretty accurate) 4) Are a journalist and publish an article which the court rules has caused "mental pain" to suing party (usually politicians and judges - this happens all the time)
- tathougies 6y ago
  Well as long as the press doesn't mention any of the banned topics and people only gather to support things that aren't banned they are free. All people are free you see but some are more free than others
tathougies 6y ago
How can you claim the press is free when you already claimed there are certain topics you cannot broach? Meanwhile the us press is so free they can publish completely anonymous articles critical of the president (the atlantics unsubstantiated veterans comment) and the most they get 'punished' is a critical tweet. You are delusional to think the European media is freer.
- mthoms 6y ago
  No, it's you who are delusional. The U.S. ranks 45th in press freedoms. There are 25 European countries who rank better. Heck, there are even 5 African countries who rank higher. https://rsf.org/en/ranking https://rsf.org/en/ranking https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Press_Freedom_Index https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Press_Freedom_Index This infamous clip from The Newsroom might shed more light on how the U.S. is actually doing in comparison to other democratic countries (all statistics quoted are easily verified if you want to look into it) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wTjMqda19wk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wTjMqda19wk

selectodude 6y ago

There's no question that the US has more voter suppression issues than Europe, but it's foolish to behave as if it's something that isn't to be worried about. https://www.ips-journal.eu/topics/european-union/voter-suppression-comes-to-europe-3999/ https://www.ips-journal.eu/topics/european-union/voter-suppr...

eznzt 6y ago
Is it completely impopular? It is my opinion that expats should not be allowed to vote. I've asked around and most people seem to disagree, though.

bleepblorp 6y ago

Point of order: the US is far from unique in having a written constitution. Most developed countries have a written constitution that, among other things, guarantees (on paper) basic rights to their citizens. The only exception is the UK, which does not have a single written constitutional document. As you say, the commitment to basic democratic rights is considerably stronger in other western countries than in the US. The kind of abuses the Republican party habitually conducts with the aim of disenfranchising Democratic voters would not be tolerated elsewhere; this is reflected by the fact that the US constitution only explicitly prohibits certain forms of electoral discrimination (i.e. it's a blacklist policy) but does not explicitly grant a right to vote.

refurb 6y ago

This seems really handwavy. “Yes you have fewer free speech rights in Europe and Canada but that doesn’t actually matter”

deanCommie 6y ago
Not any more handwavy than "These countries don't have free speech rights, therefore they're not actually democratic"?

balfirevic 6y ago

In Croatia, which is in Europe (and part of EU), you will get fined if you: 1) Post an approving image of weed on Facebook 2) Write ACAB on Twitter (this one also got a journalist arrested) 3) Have a shirt that says "ruling party - thieves" (which, as an aside, is pretty accurate) 4) Are a journalist and publish an article which the court rules has caused "mental pain" to suing party (usually politicians and judges - this happens all the time)

tathougies 6y ago
Well as long as the press doesn't mention any of the banned topics and people only gather to support things that aren't banned they are free. All people are free you see but some are more free than others

tathougies 6y ago

How can you claim the press is free when you already claimed there are certain topics you cannot broach? Meanwhile the us press is so free they can publish completely anonymous articles critical of the president (the atlantics unsubstantiated veterans comment) and the most they get 'punished' is a critical tweet. You are delusional to think the European media is freer.

mthoms 6y ago
No, it's you who are delusional. The U.S. ranks 45th in press freedoms. There are 25 European countries who rank better. Heck, there are even 5 African countries who rank higher. https://rsf.org/en/ranking https://rsf.org/en/ranking https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Press_Freedom_Index https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Press_Freedom_Index This infamous clip from The Newsroom might shed more light on how the U.S. is actually doing in comparison to other democratic countries (all statistics quoted are easily verified if you want to look into it) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wTjMqda19wk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wTjMqda19wk