7 ms·

There is some European fantasy that exists in the United States. Anyone who travels to Europe is shocked at home, food, and car sizes. Sure there is beauty and

There is some European fantasy that exists in the United States. Anyone who travels to Europe is shocked at home, food, and car sizes. Sure there is beauty and history, but the standard of living seems significantly worse off. There may be something to be said about safety nets, but it sure was a wakeup call for me. Edit- don't get hung up on the sizes comment, it's merely an expression of wealth differences.

lotsofpulp 6y ago
Yes, depends what you value more. Ford Expeditions and Chevrolet Suburbans and F150s or not worrying about your family’s healthcare.
- closeparen 6y ago
  I’d wager that the average HN reader already doesn’t worry much about healthcare; health insurance at high end tech employers tends to be pretty good. Of course many people in tech want universal healthcare for the benefit of others, but it’s not a compelling argument to e.g. personally move to Europe.
  - lotsofpulp 6y ago
    Can modify it to this: Yes, depends what you value more. Ford Expeditions and Chevrolet Suburbans and F150s or not worrying about your fellow citizens’ healthcare.
- claydavisss 6y ago
  The average HN reader has company-provided healthcare that is substantially superior to Canada, UK etc etc. There is no argument that it sucks to not have health insurance in the USA. For those that have excellent insurance, the healthcare infrastructure is the best in the world. Go visit a One Medical office and try to find something like that in Canada. Our medical clinic looks like a five star hotel, we never wait, everything is digitized and modern. But not everyone has access, that point is ceded.
Gwypaas 6y ago
I find it very American to define living standard by the size of the car, size of drink and home size. I much rather do it by the quality of entertainment and culture I have easily accessible, while choosing to live maybe a little bit smaller but much more connected at any time of day. Signed, tested a year in Dallas.
- Matticus_Rex 6y ago
  To be fair, you chose Dallas
  - thebradbain 6y ago
    To be fair to Dallas[1], the city itself has begun to rapidly densify and build up rather than out – it looks like a real city in many more parts than it once did (I grew up there). Would I move back there in the near future? No. Is it comparable to any first-class European city? Definitely not. Is it on par with NYC/SF/DC? Not really. Los Angeles (where I currently live)/Seattle/Atlanta? Somewhat. Heading in the right direction? Definitely. [1] Unless you're talking about DFW suburbs. In which case, once you cross the city line, try not to lose your soul in all the cookie cutter subdivisions.
dr_dshiv 6y ago
I'm super curious where you live in the USA.
Xenoamorphous 6y ago
Yeah nothing screams high standards of living like driving a gigantic 4x4 (hint: those are pretty useless in most European cities) and the size of the portions at Taco Bell. As for the housing... you can buy a cheap big house in bumfuck nowhere or a smaller place in the city. I guess just like in the US.
9HZZRfNlpR 6y ago
I'm euro and I agree, it seems people who never set a foot here fetishize it. Americans have insane amount of disposable dollars compared to Europeans and they also spend like crazy :)
- yokaze 6y ago
  > I'm euro and I agree, it seems people who never set a foot here fetishize it. The grass is always greener on the other side of the fence. > Americans have insane amount of disposable dollars compared to Europeans and they also spend like crazy That's the other side of the fence. Most Americans you noticed had insane amount of disposable income, the ones you don't register possibly don't. In average the disposable income is higher in the US than in Europe, but so is the income inequality. There are up-sides and down-sides to each systems.
  - 9HZZRfNlpR 6y ago
    Well, the average cpc cost tells a good story of averages and who is willing to spend - America is the first by a mile.
cr1895 6y ago
>Anyone who travels to Europe is shocked at home, food, and car sizes. Sure there is beauty and history, but the standard of living seems significantly worse off. Did you live somewhere in Europe, or did you just visit on a holiday?
Bayart 6y ago
>Anyone who travels to Europe is shocked at home, food, and car sizes. Sure there is beauty and history, but the standard of living seems significantly worse off It's not the first time I've talked about it on HN, but from an EU point of view making a connection between house/car/food size and standards of living is baffling.
- CapricornNoble 6y ago
  >>>from an EU point of view making a connection between house/car/food size and standards of living is baffling Humanity has probably spent ~5,000 years with the aristocracy upgrading their dwellings to something larger and more permanent than a closet-sized hovel. Same for possession of personal conveyances larger and more capable than one's own two feet. We can debate whether it is healthy, or philosophically ideal, but it certainly isn't a uniquely American phenomenon, and shouldn't be baffling, when viewed in the context of human civilization's habits of material acquisitiveness.
- emteycz 6y ago
  That's a very idealistic view of Europeans.
DrBazza 6y ago
> Anyone who travels to Europe is shocked at home, food, and car sizes I'm trying to understand this comment. I'll flip it the other way as a European Brit visiting the US. Homes: You have an entire continent, with only 400 years of (European) habitation, so you have a lot of space. Your home building is also largely after the invention of the motor car. In Europe we have, are, and will, walk everywhere. So everything is closer together, and so are the houses. Food: not quite sure what the issue is with European food, but as a European in the US, I'm astonished at how little fresh food and meat there is. If it's wrapped in plastic, I have no idea how old it is. Ugh. If I ask a butcher for a cut of meat, I know that meat has only been hung for a certain time, and on display for a certain time. Similar fruit and vegetables, and fish, and bread and so on. A massive bag of chips, or a gallon of high fructose corn syrup is not an achievement. And then car sizes. European roads are historically dictated by horse and cart. In the US, you have Eisenhower and the freeways... after the invention of cars. Don't get me wrong, I like the USA. I've spent about 5 years of my life, cumulatively in the USA. I think the European fantasy, is seeing America, and realising (from a European perspective), how much the USA could benefit from doing some European things. I want to just walk to the shops, or cycle down the road. High speed rail would be an absolute game changer for you guys. Connecting up SF and LA, or NY and Phili, but you (or rather your politicians) just don't get it.

lotsofpulp 6y ago

Yes, depends what you value more. Ford Expeditions and Chevrolet Suburbans and F150s or not worrying about your family’s healthcare.

closeparen 6y ago
I’d wager that the average HN reader already doesn’t worry much about healthcare; health insurance at high end tech employers tends to be pretty good. Of course many people in tech want universal healthcare for the benefit of others, but it’s not a compelling argument to e.g. personally move to Europe.
- lotsofpulp 6y ago
  Can modify it to this: Yes, depends what you value more. Ford Expeditions and Chevrolet Suburbans and F150s or not worrying about your fellow citizens’ healthcare.
claydavisss 6y ago
The average HN reader has company-provided healthcare that is substantially superior to Canada, UK etc etc. There is no argument that it sucks to not have health insurance in the USA. For those that have excellent insurance, the healthcare infrastructure is the best in the world. Go visit a One Medical office and try to find something like that in Canada. Our medical clinic looks like a five star hotel, we never wait, everything is digitized and modern. But not everyone has access, that point is ceded.

Gwypaas 6y ago

I find it very American to define living standard by the size of the car, size of drink and home size. I much rather do it by the quality of entertainment and culture I have easily accessible, while choosing to live maybe a little bit smaller but much more connected at any time of day. Signed, tested a year in Dallas.

Matticus_Rex 6y ago
To be fair, you chose Dallas
- thebradbain 6y ago
  To be fair to Dallas[1], the city itself has begun to rapidly densify and build up rather than out – it looks like a real city in many more parts than it once did (I grew up there). Would I move back there in the near future? No. Is it comparable to any first-class European city? Definitely not. Is it on par with NYC/SF/DC? Not really. Los Angeles (where I currently live)/Seattle/Atlanta? Somewhat. Heading in the right direction? Definitely. [1] Unless you're talking about DFW suburbs. In which case, once you cross the city line, try not to lose your soul in all the cookie cutter subdivisions.

dr_dshiv 6y ago

I'm super curious where you live in the USA.

Xenoamorphous 6y ago

Yeah nothing screams high standards of living like driving a gigantic 4x4 (hint: those are pretty useless in most European cities) and the size of the portions at Taco Bell. As for the housing... you can buy a cheap big house in bumfuck nowhere or a smaller place in the city. I guess just like in the US.

9HZZRfNlpR 6y ago

I'm euro and I agree, it seems people who never set a foot here fetishize it. Americans have insane amount of disposable dollars compared to Europeans and they also spend like crazy :)

yokaze 6y ago
> I'm euro and I agree, it seems people who never set a foot here fetishize it. The grass is always greener on the other side of the fence. > Americans have insane amount of disposable dollars compared to Europeans and they also spend like crazy That's the other side of the fence. Most Americans you noticed had insane amount of disposable income, the ones you don't register possibly don't. In average the disposable income is higher in the US than in Europe, but so is the income inequality. There are up-sides and down-sides to each systems.
- 9HZZRfNlpR 6y ago
  Well, the average cpc cost tells a good story of averages and who is willing to spend - America is the first by a mile.

cr1895 6y ago

>Anyone who travels to Europe is shocked at home, food, and car sizes. Sure there is beauty and history, but the standard of living seems significantly worse off. Did you live somewhere in Europe, or did you just visit on a holiday?

Bayart 6y ago

>Anyone who travels to Europe is shocked at home, food, and car sizes. Sure there is beauty and history, but the standard of living seems significantly worse off It's not the first time I've talked about it on HN, but from an EU point of view making a connection between house/car/food size and standards of living is baffling.

CapricornNoble 6y ago
>>>from an EU point of view making a connection between house/car/food size and standards of living is baffling Humanity has probably spent ~5,000 years with the aristocracy upgrading their dwellings to something larger and more permanent than a closet-sized hovel. Same for possession of personal conveyances larger and more capable than one's own two feet. We can debate whether it is healthy, or philosophically ideal, but it certainly isn't a uniquely American phenomenon, and shouldn't be baffling, when viewed in the context of human civilization's habits of material acquisitiveness.
emteycz 6y ago
That's a very idealistic view of Europeans.

DrBazza 6y ago

> Anyone who travels to Europe is shocked at home, food, and car sizes I'm trying to understand this comment. I'll flip it the other way as a European Brit visiting the US. Homes: You have an entire continent, with only 400 years of (European) habitation, so you have a lot of space. Your home building is also largely after the invention of the motor car. In Europe we have, are, and will, walk everywhere. So everything is closer together, and so are the houses. Food: not quite sure what the issue is with European food, but as a European in the US, I'm astonished at how little fresh food and meat there is. If it's wrapped in plastic, I have no idea how old it is. Ugh. If I ask a butcher for a cut of meat, I know that meat has only been hung for a certain time, and on display for a certain time. Similar fruit and vegetables, and fish, and bread and so on. A massive bag of chips, or a gallon of high fructose corn syrup is not an achievement. And then car sizes. European roads are historically dictated by horse and cart. In the US, you have Eisenhower and the freeways... after the invention of cars. Don't get me wrong, I like the USA. I've spent about 5 years of my life, cumulatively in the USA. I think the European fantasy, is seeing America, and realising (from a European perspective), how much the USA could benefit from doing some European things. I want to just walk to the shops, or cycle down the road. High speed rail would be an absolute game changer for you guys. Connecting up SF and LA, or NY and Phili, but you (or rather your politicians) just don't get it.