5 ms·

There's lots of downwards pressure on construction wages in Europe coming from Eastern European workers.

chrisseaton 6y ago
Are there really many qualified tunneling engineers coming in from Eastern Europe? If there are then good for them, but I still don't get why qualified people would accept so little. Surely private engineering works pays much more than that.
- bleepblorp 6y ago
  Good grief. Parts of Eastern Europe have had an industrial base since the 1800s. Indeed, the Czechs have been making cars since 1905. Of course Eastern Europe trains qualified construction workers.
  - chrisseaton 6y ago
    But none of these countries are signatories to the Washington Accord? How are they getting accredited to work in the US or UK?
    - Gwypaas 6y ago
      Haven't even heard of the Washington accord, seems very US centric. All of EU except Ireland is missing.
      - deleted 6y ago
        [deleted]
      - freemint 6y ago
        On point.
    - freemint 6y ago
      They don't need to be, because their exist mechanisms to recognize degrees from other countries inside the EU. Remember they are probably getting jobs in Germany or Spain and not "overseas".
- paganel 6y ago
  > Are there really many qualified tunneling engineers coming in from Eastern Europe? Yes, why wouldn't be there? Speaking strictly for Romania (from where I'm from) the Bucharest underground in the 1980s and almost all of the big hydro-dams projects (which also require extensive tunneling work) were carried with Romanian engineers only (we received the help of the Soviets in the early 1960s for the hydro works, though). And to be honest that question in itself is a little "orientalist", but I'll just pass over that part of the post. > If there are then good for them, but I still don't get why qualified people would accept so little Because wages are still pretty low in countries like Romania (and I guess in Poland and Bulgaria too, to give just a few examples), $30 per hour is more than enough. Plus the engineers themselves alone are no good, the project is based on the people who actually have to dig the stuff out, for them $30 per hour is double more than enough.
  - chrisseaton 6y ago
    > Yes, why wouldn't be there? Speaking strictly for Romania (from where I'm from) Great specific question! Because Romania isn't a signatory to the Washington Accord, which is the mechanism by which these engineering degrees get recognised for chartership by other countries. https://www.ieagreements.org/accords/washington/signatories/ https://www.ieagreements.org/accords/washington/signatories/ It's a simple fact that chartered engineering societies don't accept many overseas degrees! It's very hard to get chartered from overseas unless you've been to a few very notable universities. Even being listed on the European Engineering Education Database isn't accepted. https://www.engc.org.uk/glossary-faqs/frequently-asked-questions/international-activity/recognition-and-registration-in-the-uk-for-engineers-from-outside-the-uk-or-with-non-uk-qualifications/ https://www.engc.org.uk/glossary-faqs/frequently-asked-quest...
    - arethuza 6y ago
      But not everyone on a construction project needs to be a chartered engineer?
      - chrisseaton 6y ago
- drpgq 6y ago
  The people making the wages in the article aren't engineers.
- skeletal88 6y ago
  I don't believe that everyone who is working on a tunnel needs to be a "tunneling engineer". Like with construction, there's an engineer with a degree planning overseeing stuff, and then there are other guys actually doing the work. Requiring everyone to have a degree, even to do simple stuff, would be absurd. If you do in the US, then that is the reason for high costs.
thehappypm 6y ago
That's such an interesting observation. The US has tons of poor places full of millions of people -- the Deep South comes to mind -- who could fill many lower-skill construction jobs, putting downward pressure on the industry. But the distance between Mississippi and New York City is much larger than the distance between Poland and Germany -- both in miles and in ease of transit.
- scythe 6y ago
  Not to mention I think these days Poles and Berliners get along better than Mississippians and New Yorkers. It's depressing to type but it's probably true.

Are there really many qualified tunneling engineers coming in from Eastern Europe? If there are then good for them, but I still don't get why qualified people would accept so little. Surely private engineering works pays much more than that.

bleepblorp 6y ago
Good grief. Parts of Eastern Europe have had an industrial base since the 1800s. Indeed, the Czechs have been making cars since 1905. Of course Eastern Europe trains qualified construction workers.
- chrisseaton 6y ago
  But none of these countries are signatories to the Washington Accord? How are they getting accredited to work in the US or UK?
  - Gwypaas 6y ago
    Haven't even heard of the Washington accord, seems very US centric. All of EU except Ireland is missing.
    - deleted 6y ago
      [deleted]
    - freemint 6y ago
      On point.
  - freemint 6y ago
    They don't need to be, because their exist mechanisms to recognize degrees from other countries inside the EU. Remember they are probably getting jobs in Germany or Spain and not "overseas".
paganel 6y ago
> Are there really many qualified tunneling engineers coming in from Eastern Europe? Yes, why wouldn't be there? Speaking strictly for Romania (from where I'm from) the Bucharest underground in the 1980s and almost all of the big hydro-dams projects (which also require extensive tunneling work) were carried with Romanian engineers only (we received the help of the Soviets in the early 1960s for the hydro works, though). And to be honest that question in itself is a little "orientalist", but I'll just pass over that part of the post. > If there are then good for them, but I still don't get why qualified people would accept so little Because wages are still pretty low in countries like Romania (and I guess in Poland and Bulgaria too, to give just a few examples), $30 per hour is more than enough. Plus the engineers themselves alone are no good, the project is based on the people who actually have to dig the stuff out, for them $30 per hour is double more than enough.
- chrisseaton 6y ago
  > Yes, why wouldn't be there? Speaking strictly for Romania (from where I'm from) Great specific question! Because Romania isn't a signatory to the Washington Accord, which is the mechanism by which these engineering degrees get recognised for chartership by other countries. https://www.ieagreements.org/accords/washington/signatories/ https://www.ieagreements.org/accords/washington/signatories/ It's a simple fact that chartered engineering societies don't accept many overseas degrees! It's very hard to get chartered from overseas unless you've been to a few very notable universities. Even being listed on the European Engineering Education Database isn't accepted. https://www.engc.org.uk/glossary-faqs/frequently-asked-questions/international-activity/recognition-and-registration-in-the-uk-for-engineers-from-outside-the-uk-or-with-non-uk-qualifications/ https://www.engc.org.uk/glossary-faqs/frequently-asked-quest...
  - arethuza 6y ago
    But not everyone on a construction project needs to be a chartered engineer?
    - chrisseaton 6y ago
drpgq 6y ago
The people making the wages in the article aren't engineers.
skeletal88 6y ago
I don't believe that everyone who is working on a tunnel needs to be a "tunneling engineer". Like with construction, there's an engineer with a degree planning overseeing stuff, and then there are other guys actually doing the work. Requiring everyone to have a degree, even to do simple stuff, would be absurd. If you do in the US, then that is the reason for high costs.

thehappypm 6y ago

That's such an interesting observation. The US has tons of poor places full of millions of people -- the Deep South comes to mind -- who could fill many lower-skill construction jobs, putting downward pressure on the industry. But the distance between Mississippi and New York City is much larger than the distance between Poland and Germany -- both in miles and in ease of transit.

scythe 6y ago
Not to mention I think these days Poles and Berliners get along better than Mississippians and New Yorkers. It's depressing to type but it's probably true.