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tl;dr: American tunneling labor is 3-4x as expensive as Europe. There are other factors but this is the big one. Also, this sentence stood out: > [for Europe]

tl;dr: American tunneling labor is 3-4x as expensive as Europe. There are other factors but this is the big one. Also, this sentence stood out: > [for Europe] Infrastructure projects are evaluated and funded based on needs and economic benefits rather than political interests. Basically saying Europe's not corrupt, America is.

baggy_trough 6y ago
Really wondering how much organized crime has to do with this.
- fennecfoxen 6y ago
  The relationship in question is mostly not criminal, but rather involves the unions in question supporting the political career of their people in Albany. For instance, when the governor suddenly changed the plan for the L-Pocalypse tunnel repair over the holidays, after chatting with some of his buddies, undermining the MTA chief (who, if I recall correctly, first heard about it from the press conference?) The new plan involves fewer outside contractors and more union labor. (Yes, Albany, because the MTA is run by the state instead of the city, mostly to limit accountability.)
  - baggy_trough 6y ago
    Why not both? Is it truly known not to have anything to do with organized crime?
ben_w 6y ago
While I wouldn’t be surprised if the average corruption was higher in the USA, I would be very surprised if the standard deviation of corruption was lower in Europe. For all that Americans say how diverse a nation the USA is, the EU alone [0] is a mixture of Common Law states and Roman Law states, where the laws are written in 24 languages that collectively use 3 character sets. Heck, despite the Euro it still has 10 non-Euro currencies in use. [0] I’ve seen “Europe” used to mean “the EU” in the same way I’ve seen “America” used to mean “the USA”; and while the EU is definitely not a country, it is about the same size as the USA.
Bayart 6y ago
>Basically saying Europe's not corrupt, America is. The construction business is prime real estate for corruption in Europe just as it is anywhere. And it's especially bad in some countries (Italy, Hungary, Bulgaria, all of the Balkans).
- a_imho 6y ago
  Some examples from Hungary Tunnels without a mountain and a viaduct without much of a valley https://vastagbor.blog.hu/2008/08/01/hegyen_volgyon_zakatol_az_m6_os https://vastagbor.blog.hu/2008/08/01/hegyen_volgyon_zakatol_... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cQgSJC200KQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cQgSJC200KQ

baggy_trough 6y ago

Really wondering how much organized crime has to do with this.

fennecfoxen 6y ago
The relationship in question is mostly not criminal, but rather involves the unions in question supporting the political career of their people in Albany. For instance, when the governor suddenly changed the plan for the L-Pocalypse tunnel repair over the holidays, after chatting with some of his buddies, undermining the MTA chief (who, if I recall correctly, first heard about it from the press conference?) The new plan involves fewer outside contractors and more union labor. (Yes, Albany, because the MTA is run by the state instead of the city, mostly to limit accountability.)
- baggy_trough 6y ago
  Why not both? Is it truly known not to have anything to do with organized crime?

ben_w 6y ago

While I wouldn’t be surprised if the average corruption was higher in the USA, I would be very surprised if the standard deviation of corruption was lower in Europe. For all that Americans say how diverse a nation the USA is, the EU alone [0] is a mixture of Common Law states and Roman Law states, where the laws are written in 24 languages that collectively use 3 character sets. Heck, despite the Euro it still has 10 non-Euro currencies in use. [0] I’ve seen “Europe” used to mean “the EU” in the same way I’ve seen “America” used to mean “the USA”; and while the EU is definitely not a country, it is about the same size as the USA.

Bayart 6y ago

>Basically saying Europe's not corrupt, America is. The construction business is prime real estate for corruption in Europe just as it is anywhere. And it's especially bad in some countries (Italy, Hungary, Bulgaria, all of the Balkans).

a_imho 6y ago
Some examples from Hungary Tunnels without a mountain and a viaduct without much of a valley https://vastagbor.blog.hu/2008/08/01/hegyen_volgyon_zakatol_az_m6_os https://vastagbor.blog.hu/2008/08/01/hegyen_volgyon_zakatol_... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cQgSJC200KQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cQgSJC200KQ