4 ms·

> I can relatively readily point to that gets respected here if you have male bits between your legs Can you give an example of that, b/c I for one would see a

by Chris2048 6y ago

> I can relatively readily point to that gets respected here if you have male bits between your legs Can you give an example of that, b/c I for one would see anyone boasting about that as not getting a positive reaction.

DoreenMichele 6y ago
Historically, it was somewhat common for men to say to each other here "You must be smart and competent because you have a lot of karma on HN." People tend to not say that about me and when I say that about myself -- "Look, this is a metric right in front you that gets used to say other people here are smart and competent" -- it generally gets ugly reactions, as occurred here. I'm trying to walk away from this discussion at this point. I haven't had enough sleep and I've been on HN over eleven years and the degree to which I still get treated like "Shut up woman, there is no sexism here!" is a point of personal aggravation and there is no good means to combat it. Ideally, someone else should be telling people "She's probably the only woman to have ever spent time on the leader board and a respected and valued member of the community" or someone else should be telling people "She kicks ass. This is a list of her accomplishments." That's generally how respected men get treated. But that's not happening and I end up feeling like I have no real choice but to defend myself at times, knowing that will also go badly and be used against me as evidence that I'm not actually important or respectable or smart and so on. That's the essence of sexism. It's a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation. There simply are no good answers for me. They don't exist and trying to find them gets a lot of abuse heaped upon me. I was openly homeless on HN for nearly six years. I remain dirt poor. I continue to get treated like I'm a loon who has no basis to claim any kind of competence at all. And if I say that is evidence of sexism, well, that's just more "evidence" I'm some crank. Anyway, I haven't had enough sleep. I have had more than I care to have of this type of conversation for today. I'm trying to walk away.
- jb1991 6y ago
  I'm sorry to hear of your situation. May I offer some context for what appears to be general push-back to your argument. There are some incredible contributors to this forum who are women that I respect a lot, despite that they actually have quite low HN karma, devaboone for example. The only thing that causes respect in most eyes is the actual quality of discourse, the content itself. When I see a high karma, the only conclusion anyone draws is that this is someone who spends a lot of time on this site, which is just fine. But anyone here can have a high karma if they want to spend that time, and merely spending that time is not in and of itself a source of interest. What is definitely not interesting is talking about the karma score itself and whether or not someone is on some list of frequent users.
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
- will4274 6y ago
  > Historically, it was somewhat common for men to say to each other here "You must be smart and competent because you have a lot of karma on HN." Repeating parent... Do you have an example? Like a link.
  - DoreenMichele 6y ago
    I'm not going to spend all day on this -- it's pointless anyway because answering you will be some new crime on my part since I said I was walking away and no one will feel like "Well, they shouldn't have doubled down and tried to lure her back into the conversation" because it's all about proving I'm evil and the way I get mistreated is justified -- but here are a few: You rarely would say "He has accumulated lot of good karma by doing good, I better see what he has to say". On HN, its a different story. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1068454 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1068454 Karma is used as part of the YC-applicant vetting process. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=454022 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=454022 Hey, thanks a lot for the feedback. Now I understand why you have 40k karma ;) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1758794 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1758794 Most high-karma people on HN (like, 5k+) get there by being thoughtful. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1757388 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1757388 Those are all old comments. Probably not a coincidence because as stated previously when I began pointing out the double standard -- that men would praise each other for having high karma here but nothing I do is ever good enough and I get attacked for trying to assert that I deserve to be treated better -- then people began saying that less rather than, you know, decide to treat me better.
- cma 6y ago
  > I continue to get treated like I'm a loon who has no basis to claim any kind of competence at all. > And if I say that is evidence of sexism, well, that's just more "evidence" I'm some crank. You claimed in the thread that you were deserving of the Nobel prize in medicine. If people are treating you like a crank and you are making claims like that, that is pretty far from "no basis to claim any kind of competence at all." That one seems to be a claim of supreme competence.
- cvbcvbcvbcvbc 6y ago
  I've never seen people flaubnt their karma or congratulate others on their karma here, and I have been on HN almost from day one. I've also been on the leader board at some time (when the board was introduced or was topic of discussion, may have been the only time when people where congratulated for their karma or position on the board). These days I use throwaway accounts because of the increasing censorship and to force myself to ignore the karma system. I think karma does affect the algorithm that decides if you get flagged or banned, or at least alerts the mods. May just be the short time votes on specific comments, though.

DoreenMichele 6y ago

Historically, it was somewhat common for men to say to each other here "You must be smart and competent because you have a lot of karma on HN." People tend to not say that about me and when I say that about myself -- "Look, this is a metric right in front you that gets used to say other people here are smart and competent" -- it generally gets ugly reactions, as occurred here. I'm trying to walk away from this discussion at this point. I haven't had enough sleep and I've been on HN over eleven years and the degree to which I still get treated like "Shut up woman, there is no sexism here!" is a point of personal aggravation and there is no good means to combat it. Ideally, someone else should be telling people "She's probably the only woman to have ever spent time on the leader board and a respected and valued member of the community" or someone else should be telling people "She kicks ass. This is a list of her accomplishments." That's generally how respected men get treated. But that's not happening and I end up feeling like I have no real choice but to defend myself at times, knowing that will also go badly and be used against me as evidence that I'm not actually important or respectable or smart and so on. That's the essence of sexism. It's a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation. There simply are no good answers for me. They don't exist and trying to find them gets a lot of abuse heaped upon me. I was openly homeless on HN for nearly six years. I remain dirt poor. I continue to get treated like I'm a loon who has no basis to claim any kind of competence at all. And if I say that is evidence of sexism, well, that's just more "evidence" I'm some crank. Anyway, I haven't had enough sleep. I have had more than I care to have of this type of conversation for today. I'm trying to walk away.

jb1991 6y ago
I'm sorry to hear of your situation. May I offer some context for what appears to be general push-back to your argument. There are some incredible contributors to this forum who are women that I respect a lot, despite that they actually have quite low HN karma, devaboone for example. The only thing that causes respect in most eyes is the actual quality of discourse, the content itself. When I see a high karma, the only conclusion anyone draws is that this is someone who spends a lot of time on this site, which is just fine. But anyone here can have a high karma if they want to spend that time, and merely spending that time is not in and of itself a source of interest. What is definitely not interesting is talking about the karma score itself and whether or not someone is on some list of frequent users.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
will4274 6y ago
> Historically, it was somewhat common for men to say to each other here "You must be smart and competent because you have a lot of karma on HN." Repeating parent... Do you have an example? Like a link.
- DoreenMichele 6y ago
  I'm not going to spend all day on this -- it's pointless anyway because answering you will be some new crime on my part since I said I was walking away and no one will feel like "Well, they shouldn't have doubled down and tried to lure her back into the conversation" because it's all about proving I'm evil and the way I get mistreated is justified -- but here are a few: You rarely would say "He has accumulated lot of good karma by doing good, I better see what he has to say". On HN, its a different story. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1068454 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1068454 Karma is used as part of the YC-applicant vetting process. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=454022 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=454022 Hey, thanks a lot for the feedback. Now I understand why you have 40k karma ;) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1758794 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1758794 Most high-karma people on HN (like, 5k+) get there by being thoughtful. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1757388 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1757388 Those are all old comments. Probably not a coincidence because as stated previously when I began pointing out the double standard -- that men would praise each other for having high karma here but nothing I do is ever good enough and I get attacked for trying to assert that I deserve to be treated better -- then people began saying that less rather than, you know, decide to treat me better.
cma 6y ago
> I continue to get treated like I'm a loon who has no basis to claim any kind of competence at all. > And if I say that is evidence of sexism, well, that's just more "evidence" I'm some crank. You claimed in the thread that you were deserving of the Nobel prize in medicine. If people are treating you like a crank and you are making claims like that, that is pretty far from "no basis to claim any kind of competence at all." That one seems to be a claim of supreme competence.
cvbcvbcvbcvbc 6y ago
I've never seen people flaubnt their karma or congratulate others on their karma here, and I have been on HN almost from day one. I've also been on the leader board at some time (when the board was introduced or was topic of discussion, may have been the only time when people where congratulated for their karma or position on the board). These days I use throwaway accounts because of the increasing censorship and to force myself to ignore the karma system. I think karma does affect the algorithm that decides if you get flagged or banned, or at least alerts the mods. May just be the short time votes on specific comments, though.