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Maybe someday this can be added to browsers, and the browsers can advertise the users’s preference to the server. Maybe even have a special request header for i

by bouke 6y ago

Maybe someday this can be added to browsers, and the browsers can advertise the users’s preference to the server. Maybe even have a special request header for it. We could call it “Do-Not-Track”. A value of “1” would opt-out of all tracking (cookies).

Dirlewanger 6y ago
These modals being everywhere is 100% a failure of lawmakers being technically inept (again) and being vague with execution. Did EU lawmakers not have anyone providing them advice when writing GDPR?
- xyzzy_plugh 6y ago
  I almost wonder if there was some lobbying done pro-banner because it probably results in higher engagement (I'm guessing most people click accept blindly) versus disabling cookies. I'm sure Google likes the current state better than if they had to change their browser to encourage folks to disable cookies.
  - est31 6y ago
    Yeah the banners are annoying and in fact may make it more likely for people to keep cookies. I have my browser set to clear all cookies on close, but that also deletes my "I accept" clicks, so every time I start a new browser session, and this is multiple times per day, my cookies reset. Result before: my cookies would all reset multiple times per day, all nice. Result after: I have to click stupid banners about cookies that I'm deleting soon thereafter anyways.
    - jerome-jh 6y ago
      Oh man that's annoying! The funny part is that it annoys especially those who are careful about their data. So it is basically an incentive for being loose with privacy. Long ago I used set this setting in my parent's browser but they simply could not stand it.
    - noir_lord 6y ago
      Ublock origin has additional off by default lists. One of those is called annoyances, it gets rid of a lot of that noise ime.
  - mitjam 6y ago
    I dom‘t think so, it can even backfire big time since when data is collected based on consent the user can always retract their consent and demand all data tracked under consent to be deleted. I bet every single company would struggle to meet users´ rights under GDPR if they would be enacted more commonly or even on a regular basis.
jayess 6y ago
I turned on the anti-cookie alert option in ublock.
- eznzt 6y ago
  Many webpages break with this. It's really annoying.
  - ffpip 6y ago
    Can you link some? i've never faced issues
- GuillaumeHr 6y ago
  Blocking cookie banner is a solution. We (Ninja Cookie) believe you have to say that you don't want to be tracked. We like to take the example of democracy and elections as a way of explaining our stance: many people complain that their opinion is never heard, or even that their voice cannot change the final outcome. But how can anyone expect an opinion to be heard, and taken into account, if it is not stated?
Buchstabensalat 6y ago
Great from a user perspective - but wouldn't this mean the end of online advertising? I imagine conversion tracking, or even sending requests to external servers wouldn't be okay with this setting.
- GuillaumeHr 6y ago
  I think you are absolutely right. And that's why I think cookies are definitely not dead yet :) Cookie warnings are designed to be hard to opt-out in order to increase tracking opt-in... So that's why Ninja Cookie is good for user's privacy and web experience.
- egypturnash 6y ago
  People would still be perfectly capable of selling advertisements that worked similarly to the way ads worked before everything was online - a magazine/newspaper/tv show/etc says "our audience size is roughly X, our audience demographics are Y, here's what our ad rates are". Modern hyper-invasive ads that follow you around the net, build up a profile based on everywhere you go, and occasionally try to install unpleasant software payloads, would have trouble surviving. Can you truly make a case that this would be a bad thing?
  - eli 6y ago
    This works great for a media organization like ours. It's not hard to convince a company that sells power plant control software that anyone who reads utilitydive.com is a good candidate for their ad. But it's gonna be tough for sites that are "general interest" or even very specific but on a topic that just doesn't have big ad budgets behind it. Our approach also depends on building a recognizable brand in the industry and having a robust in-house ad sales and operations people. I'm not here to defend programmatic advertising, but I think if/when it goes away it's gonna suck for a lot of small indie sites.
    - egypturnash 6y ago
      I sure do miss having Project Wonderful ads against my comics. Moderately targeted to my audience, no flash/javascript/etc bullshit. Worked real well for my solo-creator stuff. Honestly though once Patreon came along I had a goal of "turn off ads" and I'm pretty happy with that, too. "Everything on the Internet will be free forever, supported solely by ads!" was a terrible idea.
dessant 6y ago
Global Privacy Control [1] is a new specification that is backed by an increasing number of browser vendors and publishers. [1] https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2020/10/coming-to-a-browser-near-you-a-new-way-to-keep-sites-from-selling-your-data/ https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2020/10/coming-to-a-brow...
- sjroot 6y ago
  This...this was Do Not Track..
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
  - ben509 6y ago
    It's so strange that, when dealing with an industry that thought pop-unders were a great idea, asking nicely didn't work. I can't fathom why.
  - esperent 6y ago
    The article is literally about how this is similar/different from Do Not Track and how new laws such as GDPR give it a chance to work where the former didn't.
recursive 6y ago
There's no need to notify the server that your user-agent is opting out of cookies. Cookies only work because your user agent remembers them. You can opt out of cookies today by turning off cookies in your user agent. As a bonus, this even works for shady servers that don't respect earnest requests.
- Semaphor 6y ago
  All the tracking is far more involved than cookies though.
  - deepstack 6y ago
    Canvas GPU finger print, network analysis, you get tracked one way or another. Surf web with lynx or lynx2 only!
  - recursive 6y ago
    Yes. The comment I referred to specifically referred to cookies. Also, if you're being tracked by canvas fingerprinting and font enumeration, I doubt asking nicely will have any effect.
edoceo 6y ago
This one right? https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/HTTP/Headers/DNT https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/HTTP/Headers/DN...

by bouke 6y ago

Dirlewanger 6y ago

These modals being everywhere is 100% a failure of lawmakers being technically inept (again) and being vague with execution. Did EU lawmakers not have anyone providing them advice when writing GDPR?

xyzzy_plugh 6y ago
I almost wonder if there was some lobbying done pro-banner because it probably results in higher engagement (I'm guessing most people click accept blindly) versus disabling cookies. I'm sure Google likes the current state better than if they had to change their browser to encourage folks to disable cookies.
- est31 6y ago
  Yeah the banners are annoying and in fact may make it more likely for people to keep cookies. I have my browser set to clear all cookies on close, but that also deletes my "I accept" clicks, so every time I start a new browser session, and this is multiple times per day, my cookies reset. Result before: my cookies would all reset multiple times per day, all nice. Result after: I have to click stupid banners about cookies that I'm deleting soon thereafter anyways.
  - jerome-jh 6y ago
    Oh man that's annoying! The funny part is that it annoys especially those who are careful about their data. So it is basically an incentive for being loose with privacy. Long ago I used set this setting in my parent's browser but they simply could not stand it.
  - noir_lord 6y ago
    Ublock origin has additional off by default lists. One of those is called annoyances, it gets rid of a lot of that noise ime.
- mitjam 6y ago
  I dom‘t think so, it can even backfire big time since when data is collected based on consent the user can always retract their consent and demand all data tracked under consent to be deleted. I bet every single company would struggle to meet users´ rights under GDPR if they would be enacted more commonly or even on a regular basis.

jayess 6y ago

I turned on the anti-cookie alert option in ublock.

eznzt 6y ago
Many webpages break with this. It's really annoying.
- ffpip 6y ago
  Can you link some? i've never faced issues
GuillaumeHr 6y ago
Blocking cookie banner is a solution. We (Ninja Cookie) believe you have to say that you don't want to be tracked. We like to take the example of democracy and elections as a way of explaining our stance: many people complain that their opinion is never heard, or even that their voice cannot change the final outcome. But how can anyone expect an opinion to be heard, and taken into account, if it is not stated?

Buchstabensalat 6y ago

Great from a user perspective - but wouldn't this mean the end of online advertising? I imagine conversion tracking, or even sending requests to external servers wouldn't be okay with this setting.

GuillaumeHr 6y ago
I think you are absolutely right. And that's why I think cookies are definitely not dead yet :) Cookie warnings are designed to be hard to opt-out in order to increase tracking opt-in... So that's why Ninja Cookie is good for user's privacy and web experience.
egypturnash 6y ago
People would still be perfectly capable of selling advertisements that worked similarly to the way ads worked before everything was online - a magazine/newspaper/tv show/etc says "our audience size is roughly X, our audience demographics are Y, here's what our ad rates are". Modern hyper-invasive ads that follow you around the net, build up a profile based on everywhere you go, and occasionally try to install unpleasant software payloads, would have trouble surviving. Can you truly make a case that this would be a bad thing?
- eli 6y ago
  This works great for a media organization like ours. It's not hard to convince a company that sells power plant control software that anyone who reads utilitydive.com is a good candidate for their ad. But it's gonna be tough for sites that are "general interest" or even very specific but on a topic that just doesn't have big ad budgets behind it. Our approach also depends on building a recognizable brand in the industry and having a robust in-house ad sales and operations people. I'm not here to defend programmatic advertising, but I think if/when it goes away it's gonna suck for a lot of small indie sites.
  - egypturnash 6y ago
    I sure do miss having Project Wonderful ads against my comics. Moderately targeted to my audience, no flash/javascript/etc bullshit. Worked real well for my solo-creator stuff. Honestly though once Patreon came along I had a goal of "turn off ads" and I'm pretty happy with that, too. "Everything on the Internet will be free forever, supported solely by ads!" was a terrible idea.

dessant 6y ago

Global Privacy Control [1] is a new specification that is backed by an increasing number of browser vendors and publishers. [1] https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2020/10/coming-to-a-browser-near-you-a-new-way-to-keep-sites-from-selling-your-data/ https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2020/10/coming-to-a-brow...

sjroot 6y ago
This...this was Do Not Track..
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- ben509 6y ago
  It's so strange that, when dealing with an industry that thought pop-unders were a great idea, asking nicely didn't work. I can't fathom why.
- esperent 6y ago
  The article is literally about how this is similar/different from Do Not Track and how new laws such as GDPR give it a chance to work where the former didn't.

recursive 6y ago

There's no need to notify the server that your user-agent is opting out of cookies. Cookies only work because your user agent remembers them. You can opt out of cookies today by turning off cookies in your user agent. As a bonus, this even works for shady servers that don't respect earnest requests.

Semaphor 6y ago
All the tracking is far more involved than cookies though.
- deepstack 6y ago
  Canvas GPU finger print, network analysis, you get tracked one way or another. Surf web with lynx or lynx2 only!
- recursive 6y ago
  Yes. The comment I referred to specifically referred to cookies. Also, if you're being tracked by canvas fingerprinting and font enumeration, I doubt asking nicely will have any effect.

edoceo 6y ago

This one right? https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/HTTP/Headers/DNT https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/HTTP/Headers/DN...