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I have irrationally strong feelings about production car speed records. Firstly, >Bugatti's claimed 300-mph-breaking Chiron run was never going to count As m
by thrwyoilarticle 6y ago
I have irrationally strong feelings about production car speed records.
Firstly,
>Bugatti's claimed 300-mph-breaking Chiron run was never going to count
As much as they would like to believe otherwise, Guiness World Records can not create truth. If the Chiron goes faster than the SSC, it's the fastest production car. That's it. Two way runs & proper filming are an important factor if you're trying to decide who gets the piece of paper but there's nothing 'official' about it. If someone goes faster but never tells anyone, they still went faster.
That is apart from one point: the Chiron isn't a production car. But neither is the SSC. Nor the Veyron nor the Agera RS. If you don't believe me, try to buy one. No matter how much money you have, or at what time you try to do it, you can't. All of these cars have extremely limited units sold only to people with an existing relationship with the company. All of them set records with special editions. That's just a modified car. If there are only 25 Agera RSes & every one is modified for the owner, how do you establish the one that did the record isn't just the equivalent of a binned, liquid oxygen-cooled CPU that dies after the record setting run? You can't even drive the Veyron away from a record setting attempt: you need to replace its $40000 tyres.
Bugatti's record was once in doubt because they deactivated the speed limiter for the run. This was later retracted because it's not actually about trying to set consistent rules, it's about creating marketing material for Volkswagen's halo car. Which is why they won't let anybody else run their faster cars on their track.
Other, assorted viewpoints:
- If your car is just a modified Lotus, it doesn't count.
- For bidirectional attempts, how can you say that a car has a top speed of C mph when C = A+B/2 mph and A>B? That's an invented figure.
- Traster 6y ago>- For bidirectional attempts, how can you say that a car has a top speed of C mph when C = A+B/2 mph and A>B? That's an invented figure. I agree that (A+B)/2 is an invented figure, but I think the logic of "This is the maximum a car can do without external factors" is a reasonable thing to agree on as a top-speed, and wind is an external factor. Otherwise a lot of cars can set their top speed by being dropped from a sky scraper, and the testing would get unreasonably expensive. (A+B)/2 is probably a good first approximation to a wind-neutral value (and a gravity neutral value too).
- wlesieutre 6y agoOn that note, a Porsche 911 Turbo races 1 mile against a VW Beetle dropped from a helicopter. I won't spoil the ending. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SiAbcw5s9_8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SiAbcw5s9_8 But based on the Beetle's terminal velocity here, this strategy for setting a car's top speed will only work for cars that can't drive particularly fast.
- Sebb767 6y agoFun fact: That was probably still cheaper with the Beetle than a record run with the Veyron :)
- LoSboccacc 6y agoespecially considered the veyron dismantled and crashed in the test run https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6_3LhIjV6aY&list=LLCR_Dw6p0bjOQ_3ZULYEPiA&index=355 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6_3LhIjV6aY&list=LLCR_Dw6p0b...
- wlesieutre 6y agoThe Beetle probably cost similar to one tire for the Veyron
- lacker 6y agoOtherwise a lot of cars can set their top speed by being dropped from a sky scraper, and the testing would get unreasonably expensive. Dropping a $25,000 Camry from an airplane might actually be cheaper than a single speed run of these hypercars, where they burn through a $40,000 set of tires....
- 0xf8 6y agoI highly doubt the terminal velocity of any production car is even close to the top speed records in discussion here.
- skykooler 6y ago
- mhh__ 6y agoThe Veyron definitely was a production car if you had the money at the time. As a wider point, the original Veyron had all the bells and whistles you'd expect from a mercedes S-class (for example), as opposed to being a stripped down racer.
- thrwyoilarticle 6y agoThe base Veyron didn't set the record. There were only 35 of the model that did.
- atdrummond 6y agoKoenigsegg’s production list is capped, yes, but it doesn’t require a pre-existing relationship. I work with a group of people who have built a car sharing club. I procured a Jesko production slot for the club and I have no existing relationship with Koenigsegg, nor any similar relationships with any major super or hypercar manufacturers.
- justinclift 6y ago> I procured a Jesko production slot for the club ... How does that work? :)
- rosseloh 6y ago> If someone goes faster but never tells anyone, they still went faster. That's true, and I certainly am not the authority here nor am I knowledgeable enough to pretend to be one....But this reminds me of an argument I had once with someone about Short Takeoff & Landing airplane competitions. They were bringing up how a group in Alaska was totally incorrect in claiming the competitors at their event were setting world records because (paraphrased) "well I know a guy whose uncle in Idaho took off in a foot less than that on his mountain airstrip, so that video isn't of the world record.". Did he? Maybe. I can't prove either way. But the difference is, these guys are the, or at least an, authority on STOL world records. If you are serious about setting a record like that, you're going to participate in one of these events. Uncle Jimmy might be a pretty dang good pilot but it really doesn't matter if nobody was there to see it. And the pilots in these all agree that this group is the authority, so why would they recognize a "record" from someone outside it?
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- TylerE 6y ago> Two way runs & proper filming are an important factor if you're trying to decide who gets the piece of paper but there's nothing 'official' about it. The FIA, which sanctions all land speed record attempts, disagrees: Two runs, in opposite directions, with no more than 1 hour between the runs.
- bigiain 6y agoSame argument holds though. If Elon decided to go run a special build Tesla with a new "Infinite Insanity" mode and did 350mph - without Guinness or FIA observers or sanctions, that'd be a thing, and sure it wouldn't qualify for any "official Guinness/FIA piece of paper", but I have no doubt Tesla Marketing would mount a magnificent press campaign with totally convincing proof of their claimed numbers. (I totally agree that if you _want_ to make claims like that, you should abide by commonly held agreements and recognised authorities. But Elon does dumb shit all the time, and may well be the sort of guy who chooses _not_ to follow FIA rules to intentionally generate social media "engagement" and "vitality"...)
- brlewis 6y ago> there's nothing 'official' about it. If someone goes faster but never tells anyone, they still went faster The word "official" refers to authority, not to reality. I'm using the official definition.
- 0xf8 6y agoepistemics vs metaphysics.
- anuila 6y agoThis is it. There’s no difference between someone who goes faster and someone who claims to go faster if there’s no one to validate the result. Bugatti’s “oh yeah we went superfast but we won’t bother to validate the record” is not very different from “my dad did 100mph once.”
- thrwyoilarticle 6y agoI hope someone can tell CERN they need their particle physics verified by GWR.
- anuila 6y agoWeak argument. 1. CERN is made of scientists; Their job is to measure stuff. SSC relied on a third party. 2. Their published studies are indeed open to replication/verification. "Hey we just achieved speed faster than light, believe us" doesn't just happen.
- thrwyoilarticle 6y agoWhy are the editors of a novelty book the authority and not, for instance, the FIA? GWR don't accept some kinds of records, does that mean they don't have one?