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It’s hard to imagine a more direct icon for supporting open fascism in America right now than someone saying “Obama built the cages” as if it is somehow related

by mlthoughts2018 6y ago

It’s hard to imagine a more direct icon for supporting open fascism in America right now than someone saying “Obama built the cages” as if it is somehow related to Trump dehumanizing immigrants and separating children illegally or mitigates what Trump has done or in any way makes Obama or Biden or the Democratic party culpable for what Trump has done.

apta 6y ago
It means both parties committed atrocities, and the position of some leftists that they hold absolute morality somehow is baseless and delusional.
- mlthoughts2018 6y ago
  Claiming that “Obama built the cages” means both parties committed atrocities or that the parties are anywhere close to “equal” on this topic is a direct endorsement of violent fascism from the right. That is not spin, that is not leftists unfairly claiming moral superiority, nothing remotely like that at all. It is just purely the fact of Trump’s immigration dehumanization. It transgresses against the base requirements of civil society in a way that is deeply worse and not comparable to Obama’s own poor record on immigration, they are not comparable at all. Any attempt to legitimize Trump’s behavior by acting like “both sides” did wrong things is directly equivalent to endorsing violent fascism at this point. It’s morally repugnant and incompatible with baseline civil society - any option to try to excuse Trump’s behavior has been removed.
  - apta 6y ago
    The left is also engaging in facist policies. If neither party is willing to admit their atrocities then no progress is going to be made, and just more polarization is going to ensue. It's quite sickening to see the leftists claim moral superiority and virtue signal. I see more willingness to engage in debate from the right.
    - mlthoughts2018 6y ago
      No, this is simply false. Your efforts to convert a nearly 100% far-right, Trump-led problem into an obfuscated “both parties” 50/50 issue is completely untethered from reality and is so extremely far away from basic civil discourse that it’s unacceptable. By repeatedly trying to dogmatically assert it’s an issue of both parties, you are doing nothing but assisting horrific fascism from the far right. We are way past any point where someone can just casually claim this is debatable.
gadders 6y ago
Got you. It's only fascism if Trump does it.
- mlthoughts2018 6y ago
  Absolutely not. Trump is the only one who did it. Your comment is completely wrong. Acting as if Obama “also” did something wrong here is utterly disingenuous in an intellectually bankrupt way - it is not comparable to Trump’s behavior and any attempt to argue it is comparable is, at this point, literally the same as legitimizing fascism.
  - gadders 6y ago
    I think your comments are so blinkered and one-sided there is literally no point in debating with you. Trump Derangement Syndrome is alive and well.
    - mlthoughts2018 6y ago
      The empirical reality of the situation is completely one-sided. “Both-sides-ism” at this point is straight equivalent to endorsing fascist violence by trying to legitimize Trump’s sweepingly fascist and violent rhetoric and actions. If a person has normal, healthy skepticism and tries to derive their reactions dispassionately from the facts, they would have no intellectually honest choice but to conclude the blame is one-sidedly with Trump and his supporters who are openly calling for fascist suppression of democratic electoral process. When reality is one-sided by all evidence, then fair-minded people are also one-sided too.

apta 6y ago

It means both parties committed atrocities, and the position of some leftists that they hold absolute morality somehow is baseless and delusional.

mlthoughts2018 6y ago
Claiming that “Obama built the cages” means both parties committed atrocities or that the parties are anywhere close to “equal” on this topic is a direct endorsement of violent fascism from the right. That is not spin, that is not leftists unfairly claiming moral superiority, nothing remotely like that at all. It is just purely the fact of Trump’s immigration dehumanization. It transgresses against the base requirements of civil society in a way that is deeply worse and not comparable to Obama’s own poor record on immigration, they are not comparable at all. Any attempt to legitimize Trump’s behavior by acting like “both sides” did wrong things is directly equivalent to endorsing violent fascism at this point. It’s morally repugnant and incompatible with baseline civil society - any option to try to excuse Trump’s behavior has been removed.
- apta 6y ago
  The left is also engaging in facist policies. If neither party is willing to admit their atrocities then no progress is going to be made, and just more polarization is going to ensue. It's quite sickening to see the leftists claim moral superiority and virtue signal. I see more willingness to engage in debate from the right.
  - mlthoughts2018 6y ago
    No, this is simply false. Your efforts to convert a nearly 100% far-right, Trump-led problem into an obfuscated “both parties” 50/50 issue is completely untethered from reality and is so extremely far away from basic civil discourse that it’s unacceptable. By repeatedly trying to dogmatically assert it’s an issue of both parties, you are doing nothing but assisting horrific fascism from the far right. We are way past any point where someone can just casually claim this is debatable.

gadders 6y ago

Got you. It's only fascism if Trump does it.

mlthoughts2018 6y ago
Absolutely not. Trump is the only one who did it. Your comment is completely wrong. Acting as if Obama “also” did something wrong here is utterly disingenuous in an intellectually bankrupt way - it is not comparable to Trump’s behavior and any attempt to argue it is comparable is, at this point, literally the same as legitimizing fascism.
- gadders 6y ago
  I think your comments are so blinkered and one-sided there is literally no point in debating with you. Trump Derangement Syndrome is alive and well.
  - mlthoughts2018 6y ago
    The empirical reality of the situation is completely one-sided. “Both-sides-ism” at this point is straight equivalent to endorsing fascist violence by trying to legitimize Trump’s sweepingly fascist and violent rhetoric and actions. If a person has normal, healthy skepticism and tries to derive their reactions dispassionately from the facts, they would have no intellectually honest choice but to conclude the blame is one-sidedly with Trump and his supporters who are openly calling for fascist suppression of democratic electoral process. When reality is one-sided by all evidence, then fair-minded people are also one-sided too.