3 ms·

This victim-blaming needs to stop before the tech industry backlash hits. This is exactly why we need regulation. I swear, if "just go somewhere else" were good

This victim-blaming needs to stop before the tech industry backlash hits. This is exactly why we need regulation. I swear, if "just go somewhere else" were good advice (and it's not), we wouldn't be having this conversation. How many years has it been, though, that Google and other consumer-ignorant companies have been able to get away with this, helped along by people who tell victims to just "go somewhere else"? Normal people will only put up with this for so long. Either regulate it intelligently now, or expect actually scary regulation a decade or two from now. There's nothing wrong with a law that says: "You cannot close a customer's account with no remediation, no recourse, and no explanation." What is Silicon Valley so afraid of there? How is that unreasonable?

indigochill 6y ago
> Normal people will only put up with this for so long. Agreed. Then they will learn that Google is not to be trusted with email and move to a provider that is (sort of like how kids migrated away from Facebook when their parents showed up, even though Facebook remains a dominant brand). Disruption occurs when an incumbent is bad at something which the disruptor beats them at. In this case, there is an opportunity for an email provider to disrupt Google by providing actual customer service. Protonmail is already making waves in this space (in addition to the encryption). The reason I'm anti-regulation is that every law is a headache waiting to happen (and one more barrier to entry) where to me -the- beauty of the internet is that there's almost no barrier to entry once you have an internet-capable device. The more we regulate the internet, the more difficult doing something as simple as running a personal discussion forum becomes. Regulation is, at its best, a necessary evil, to be avoided until no other solution has proven viable. And there are plenty of other solutions for this particular problem. And to clarify, I'm anti-Silicon Valley (IMO venture capital's expectation of high returns is the direct cause of many of the "evils of tech"). But I do tend to agree with the anti-regulation stance. IMO the problems people want to solve with regulation (even including GDPR) are better solved by better tech and organizations that align their incentives with those of their users.
NeoFeznet 6y ago
For real. If we don't do this ourselves, then the hammer is gonna come down much harsher and with much more reckless abandon in the future. It'll look closer to SOPA than anything reasonable. I don't want 80 year-old dinosaurs in Congress making these decisions 10-15 years from now because we couldn't get our shit together.
- indigochill 6y ago
  What do we expect to change between now and 10-15 years from now that will make regulation harsher? Assuming bad behavior from tech giants continues (and, crucially, continues to be publicized), I would assume by then a competitor will have come along to take the bad-behaver's business. After all, 15 years ago we still thought Google was "not evil". A lot can change in that time.
anonymousab 6y ago
I think it is reasonable to have the position that Google is big and powerful enough that it cannot and will not be regulated by, say, the US government. Or rather, that it has enough permanent influence such that any regulations will be watered down to be de-facto meaningless, or in most cases, strategically beneficial to Google themselves (substitute chosen megacorp here).
ksk 6y ago
How do you change people's mindsets from 'free is good' to 'free is bad' though? They're not planning on being customers of Google. >This victim-blaming needs to stop before the tech industry backlash hits. This is exactly why we need regulation. Google will simply dilute the language of the regulation, to the point where they will simply add a "your account can be deleted at any time for any reason, proceed at your own risk" popup during sign-up, and people will happily hit continue/next. Systemic reform can't exclusively happen top-down or bottom-up. There needs to be some of both. We need to stop giving Google free good-will on HN. Stop up-voting Google product launches, stop promoting Chrome, etc, etc.

indigochill 6y ago

> Normal people will only put up with this for so long. Agreed. Then they will learn that Google is not to be trusted with email and move to a provider that is (sort of like how kids migrated away from Facebook when their parents showed up, even though Facebook remains a dominant brand). Disruption occurs when an incumbent is bad at something which the disruptor beats them at. In this case, there is an opportunity for an email provider to disrupt Google by providing actual customer service. Protonmail is already making waves in this space (in addition to the encryption). The reason I'm anti-regulation is that every law is a headache waiting to happen (and one more barrier to entry) where to me -the- beauty of the internet is that there's almost no barrier to entry once you have an internet-capable device. The more we regulate the internet, the more difficult doing something as simple as running a personal discussion forum becomes. Regulation is, at its best, a necessary evil, to be avoided until no other solution has proven viable. And there are plenty of other solutions for this particular problem. And to clarify, I'm anti-Silicon Valley (IMO venture capital's expectation of high returns is the direct cause of many of the "evils of tech"). But I do tend to agree with the anti-regulation stance. IMO the problems people want to solve with regulation (even including GDPR) are better solved by better tech and organizations that align their incentives with those of their users.

NeoFeznet 6y ago

For real. If we don't do this ourselves, then the hammer is gonna come down much harsher and with much more reckless abandon in the future. It'll look closer to SOPA than anything reasonable. I don't want 80 year-old dinosaurs in Congress making these decisions 10-15 years from now because we couldn't get our shit together.

indigochill 6y ago
What do we expect to change between now and 10-15 years from now that will make regulation harsher? Assuming bad behavior from tech giants continues (and, crucially, continues to be publicized), I would assume by then a competitor will have come along to take the bad-behaver's business. After all, 15 years ago we still thought Google was "not evil". A lot can change in that time.

anonymousab 6y ago

I think it is reasonable to have the position that Google is big and powerful enough that it cannot and will not be regulated by, say, the US government. Or rather, that it has enough permanent influence such that any regulations will be watered down to be de-facto meaningless, or in most cases, strategically beneficial to Google themselves (substitute chosen megacorp here).

ksk 6y ago

How do you change people's mindsets from 'free is good' to 'free is bad' though? They're not planning on being customers of Google. >This victim-blaming needs to stop before the tech industry backlash hits. This is exactly why we need regulation. Google will simply dilute the language of the regulation, to the point where they will simply add a "your account can be deleted at any time for any reason, proceed at your own risk" popup during sign-up, and people will happily hit continue/next. Systemic reform can't exclusively happen top-down or bottom-up. There needs to be some of both. We need to stop giving Google free good-will on HN. Stop up-voting Google product launches, stop promoting Chrome, etc, etc.