5 ms·

RIAA made a claim that some content violates their rights under DMCA, which in this hypothetical causes my account to be blocked. I can bring a case under the d

by ikeboy 6y ago

RIAA made a claim that some content violates their rights under DMCA, which in this hypothetical causes my account to be blocked. I can bring a case under the declaratory judgement act against RIAA, asking a court to decide whether the content is actually infringing. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Declaratory_judgment https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Declaratory_judgment I may also have a tortious interference claim, although damages are likely negligible so it's probably not worth bringing any claims other than that declaratory judgement one.

toomuchtodo 6y ago
Be the squeaky wheel. Thanks for your efforts.
Mindwipe 6y ago
Well, I would strongly suggest you speak to a lawyer on it, but I would note this strategy only really gives you an American judgement, and the RIAA takedown would still apply in any other territory. I don't know if Github would host content where they felt there were issues in some countries and not others. Would they geofilter it as they do with Iranian contributors due to US sanctions?
- garmaine 6y ago
  Why would the RIAA takedown apply in other jurisdictions, when it cites US law?
  - heavyset_go 6y ago
    The US and some of its allies have signed treaties and agreements that protect IP internationally.
    - ikeboy 6y ago
      None of those matter if a US court has declared that there's no infringement. Also, many of those probably don't cover circumvention.
      - deleted 6y ago
        [deleted]
      - Mindwipe 6y ago
        Literally everyone who is a member of WIPO covers circumvention, so that's 193 countries.
        ikeboy 6y ago
        Good point, thanks. I still think a US ruling would be very beneficial, even if it doesn't definitively settle the issue globally.
        bxk1 6y ago
        The comment is wrong though. There is no need to settle the issue globally, it's a US-only issue. As being a WIPO member or signing a treaty doesn't create laws. Being a WIPO member doesn't do much of anything actually, it's all just talk, that's why there are so many members. Instead countries have sovereignty, pass and implement their own laws regarding copyright typically requiring elected politicians to propose them and vote on them, independently from WIPO and treaties. They also have their own judicial systems, most countries not even doing a common law style system where things can ever be "settled", it's more about court orders, rather than some clever demands written by lawyers. So, when it comes to copyright, most of the world is really not like the US. A random WIPO country is likely not just lacks anti-circumvention copyright laws, but also lacks a lot of other things in them.
  - Mindwipe 6y ago
    > Why would the RIAA takedown apply in other jurisdictions, when it cites US law? The RIAA can probably afford to send a second letter citing British or German law.
    - garmaine 6y ago
      Point is e part of the law being cited is very US-specific.
      - Mindwipe 6y ago
        It's not, you can literally swap it out for very similar anti-circumvention laws in virtually every Western democracy and indeed almost every functioning country in the world.
gamblor956 6y ago
You really should talk to a lawyer because it sounds like the entire basis for your protest is grounded in a misunderstanding of how the DMCA provisions work. I can tell you based on what you've posted in this thread that you absolutely do not have a tortious interference claim unless you've entered into contracts you haven't previously mentioned.
- ikeboy 6y ago
  I've talked to plenty of lawyers and spent plenty of money on intellectual property issues. I know what I'm talking about. A declaratory judgement suit is in my view the proper avenue to address a tenuous IP claim. Like I said, tortious interference is not a great fit, but it's still applicable - interference with my contract with Github counts as interference. If it was an actual DMCA notice then the only remedy would be a 512(f) suit (plus declaratory judgement) because DMCA preempts other causes of action (caveat: [0]), but it's not a DMCA notice. https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/8166790/tech-and-goods-inc-v-30-watt-holdings-llc/ https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/8166790/tech-and-goods-... here's a recent decision where a tortious interference claim was upheld when a false infringement claim was made to a third party (Amazon in this case). See dkt 30. https://mdcourts.gov/sites/default/files/unreported-opinions/2017/2556s15.pdf https://mdcourts.gov/sites/default/files/unreported-opinions... here's a tortious interference case that went to a jury and 150k in punitive damages was awarded despite actual damages only being around 5k (reduced by appeals to 75k+interest.) [0] Note that some jurisdictions haven't explicitly held that DMCA preempts state claims such as tortious interference, and at least one IP lawyer I've spoken to has brought state claims in such a jurisdiction.
  - varispeed 6y ago
    I am sceptical, but I wish you all the best. I hope you'll be successful like this dude who got Spotify playlist export back on - it was epic.
  - gamblor956 6y ago
    Your cites don't say what you think they say. For starters, the first link is for a motion to dismiss, A motion to dismiss merely assesses whether the plaintiff has made sufficient claims in its pleading to keep the case going. It's not a substantive ruling on the merits of anything. And second, it was related to a "tortious interference with business expectancy claim" which required the plaintiff to have a business that was interfered with as a result of the defendant's false trademark violation claim, and that harm actually resulted from the defendant's false claim. (The case is still going, and both sides have filed competing motions for summary judgment.) The second case was a tortious interfence case in which the defendant also made false allegations of counterfeiting, which led to Amazon removing the plaintiff's products from the store, so I'm assuming you brought it up because you are going to argue that the RIAA will make factually false statements of fact against you if you make a copy of the youtube-dl repository. If that's your plan, good luck, because you're going to need it. You're definitely going to want to hire better lawyers, too, if your current lawyers have advised you that you could beat the RIAA in these circumstances.

by ikeboy 6y ago

toomuchtodo 6y ago

Be the squeaky wheel. Thanks for your efforts.

Mindwipe 6y ago

Well, I would strongly suggest you speak to a lawyer on it, but I would note this strategy only really gives you an American judgement, and the RIAA takedown would still apply in any other territory. I don't know if Github would host content where they felt there were issues in some countries and not others. Would they geofilter it as they do with Iranian contributors due to US sanctions?

garmaine 6y ago
Why would the RIAA takedown apply in other jurisdictions, when it cites US law?
- heavyset_go 6y ago
  The US and some of its allies have signed treaties and agreements that protect IP internationally.
  - ikeboy 6y ago
    None of those matter if a US court has declared that there's no infringement. Also, many of those probably don't cover circumvention.
    - deleted 6y ago
      [deleted]
    - Mindwipe 6y ago
      Literally everyone who is a member of WIPO covers circumvention, so that's 193 countries.
      - ikeboy 6y ago
        Good point, thanks. I still think a US ruling would be very beneficial, even if it doesn't definitively settle the issue globally.
        bxk1 6y ago
        The comment is wrong though. There is no need to settle the issue globally, it's a US-only issue. As being a WIPO member or signing a treaty doesn't create laws. Being a WIPO member doesn't do much of anything actually, it's all just talk, that's why there are so many members. Instead countries have sovereignty, pass and implement their own laws regarding copyright typically requiring elected politicians to propose them and vote on them, independently from WIPO and treaties. They also have their own judicial systems, most countries not even doing a common law style system where things can ever be "settled", it's more about court orders, rather than some clever demands written by lawyers. So, when it comes to copyright, most of the world is really not like the US. A random WIPO country is likely not just lacks anti-circumvention copyright laws, but also lacks a lot of other things in them.
- Mindwipe 6y ago
  > Why would the RIAA takedown apply in other jurisdictions, when it cites US law? The RIAA can probably afford to send a second letter citing British or German law.
  - garmaine 6y ago
    Point is e part of the law being cited is very US-specific.
    - Mindwipe 6y ago
      It's not, you can literally swap it out for very similar anti-circumvention laws in virtually every Western democracy and indeed almost every functioning country in the world.

gamblor956 6y ago

You really should talk to a lawyer because it sounds like the entire basis for your protest is grounded in a misunderstanding of how the DMCA provisions work. I can tell you based on what you've posted in this thread that you absolutely do not have a tortious interference claim unless you've entered into contracts you haven't previously mentioned.

ikeboy 6y ago
I've talked to plenty of lawyers and spent plenty of money on intellectual property issues. I know what I'm talking about. A declaratory judgement suit is in my view the proper avenue to address a tenuous IP claim. Like I said, tortious interference is not a great fit, but it's still applicable - interference with my contract with Github counts as interference. If it was an actual DMCA notice then the only remedy would be a 512(f) suit (plus declaratory judgement) because DMCA preempts other causes of action (caveat: [0]), but it's not a DMCA notice. https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/8166790/tech-and-goods-inc-v-30-watt-holdings-llc/ https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/8166790/tech-and-goods-... here's a recent decision where a tortious interference claim was upheld when a false infringement claim was made to a third party (Amazon in this case). See dkt 30. https://mdcourts.gov/sites/default/files/unreported-opinions/2017/2556s15.pdf https://mdcourts.gov/sites/default/files/unreported-opinions... here's a tortious interference case that went to a jury and 150k in punitive damages was awarded despite actual damages only being around 5k (reduced by appeals to 75k+interest.) [0] Note that some jurisdictions haven't explicitly held that DMCA preempts state claims such as tortious interference, and at least one IP lawyer I've spoken to has brought state claims in such a jurisdiction.
- varispeed 6y ago
  I am sceptical, but I wish you all the best. I hope you'll be successful like this dude who got Spotify playlist export back on - it was epic.
- gamblor956 6y ago
  Your cites don't say what you think they say. For starters, the first link is for a motion to dismiss, A motion to dismiss merely assesses whether the plaintiff has made sufficient claims in its pleading to keep the case going. It's not a substantive ruling on the merits of anything. And second, it was related to a "tortious interference with business expectancy claim" which required the plaintiff to have a business that was interfered with as a result of the defendant's false trademark violation claim, and that harm actually resulted from the defendant's false claim. (The case is still going, and both sides have filed competing motions for summary judgment.) The second case was a tortious interfence case in which the defendant also made false allegations of counterfeiting, which led to Amazon removing the plaintiff's products from the store, so I'm assuming you brought it up because you are going to argue that the RIAA will make factually false statements of fact against you if you make a copy of the youtube-dl repository. If that's your plan, good luck, because you're going to need it. You're definitely going to want to hire better lawyers, too, if your current lawyers have advised you that you could beat the RIAA in these circumstances.