5 ms·

At least for us Americans, there's more to it than practical disadvantage, though we do have to travel much longer distances much more often here. If I say we

At least for us Americans, there's more to it than practical disadvantage, though we do have to travel much longer distances much more often here. If I say we love cars because they represent freedom, I'm not sure that gets it across. For a century they have been a tool that allows the American to go when he pleases when he pleases. Everyone remembers the day his dad tossed him the keys to the car and the freedom that brought. We appreciate them on a much deeper level than is easy to communicate, and for that reason they will not go away, nor should they.

Fnoord 6y ago
I can imagine the day dad tossed the keys to the car because in USA that is at age 16 while say drinking age is 21; so it comes first, as an earlier sign of recognition of becoming an adult. Its like a nod of responsibility. Here, you are allowed both when you are considered an adult (18). That's post high school. Students get to travel for free with public transport (either throughout the week or in the weekend, they have to pick either). How nice is that? Its great, unless you live in a rural area. Instead, kids here get proud when they get their first scooter (at age 16 when still at high school). What you say about car freedom for rural life, sure. I wasn't on about rural life though. I don't know how good the public transport is in American cities (it is very good in Amsterdam, but also perhaps even better in say Berlin). I'm curious about that (didn't get to use it when I was in USA). I would guess that someone who lives in New York City who doesn't own a car can rent one if they go to say Pennsylvania. But my guess would be, like in Amsterdam, they don't need one when they reside in New York City.
- ben_w 6y ago
  > it is very good in Amsterdam, but also perhaps even better in say Berlin Oh, it’s fantastic in Berlin. Within 1.6 km of me, there are 18 tram stops, a similar number of bus stops, and 3 stops on the Ringbahn. The trams and the trains come roughly every 5 minutes. I suspect one other big difference between American and European when it comes to the feeling of car-derived Liberty is the fact that, before the Schengen Agreement, Europeans needed passports to travel between countries (and European counties are about the same size as American states); and after the Schengen Agreement, air travel was cheap enough that it (rather than cars) represents the large scale freedom of movement. At least, that’s how it feels to me.
Schiendelman 6y ago
I suspect that, for the most part, this is advertising. Sure, advertising creates culture, but you're mostly communicating the result of what you're told by the media you consume. That culture doesn't somehow make it sustainable or healthy to drive so much.
- selflesssieve 6y ago
  I get your hesitation, but it’s not advertising. You didn’t want your mom to take you and your crush to the movie theater. You didn’t want to wait 30 minutes until after practice to get picked up because your parents both work until 5. (I’m afraid that, your worldview may be, more narrow, than you, may think.)
  - Fnoord 6y ago
    Youth here walk/hike/drive (with scooter) or go with public transport on top of car (if 18+). Obviously it doesn't work well if distances are huge. A car is useful in rural areas.
    - Schiendelman 6y ago
      And every year, fewer people live in rural America compared to those in cities. :)
  - Schiendelman 6y ago
    Oh, I assert all that land use happened because of advertising and regulatory capture! The movie theater was in walking distance before the massive interstate highway giveaways.
akgerber 6y ago
As an American, the only time a car represents freedom to me is on a road trip through rural areas, and it's perfectly easy to rent one for that purpose. The rest of the time, it's a massively expensive and dangerous anchor.

Fnoord 6y ago

I can imagine the day dad tossed the keys to the car because in USA that is at age 16 while say drinking age is 21; so it comes first, as an earlier sign of recognition of becoming an adult. Its like a nod of responsibility. Here, you are allowed both when you are considered an adult (18). That's post high school. Students get to travel for free with public transport (either throughout the week or in the weekend, they have to pick either). How nice is that? Its great, unless you live in a rural area. Instead, kids here get proud when they get their first scooter (at age 16 when still at high school). What you say about car freedom for rural life, sure. I wasn't on about rural life though. I don't know how good the public transport is in American cities (it is very good in Amsterdam, but also perhaps even better in say Berlin). I'm curious about that (didn't get to use it when I was in USA). I would guess that someone who lives in New York City who doesn't own a car can rent one if they go to say Pennsylvania. But my guess would be, like in Amsterdam, they don't need one when they reside in New York City.

ben_w 6y ago
> it is very good in Amsterdam, but also perhaps even better in say Berlin Oh, it’s fantastic in Berlin. Within 1.6 km of me, there are 18 tram stops, a similar number of bus stops, and 3 stops on the Ringbahn. The trams and the trains come roughly every 5 minutes. I suspect one other big difference between American and European when it comes to the feeling of car-derived Liberty is the fact that, before the Schengen Agreement, Europeans needed passports to travel between countries (and European counties are about the same size as American states); and after the Schengen Agreement, air travel was cheap enough that it (rather than cars) represents the large scale freedom of movement. At least, that’s how it feels to me.

Schiendelman 6y ago

I suspect that, for the most part, this is advertising. Sure, advertising creates culture, but you're mostly communicating the result of what you're told by the media you consume. That culture doesn't somehow make it sustainable or healthy to drive so much.

selflesssieve 6y ago
I get your hesitation, but it’s not advertising. You didn’t want your mom to take you and your crush to the movie theater. You didn’t want to wait 30 minutes until after practice to get picked up because your parents both work until 5. (I’m afraid that, your worldview may be, more narrow, than you, may think.)
- Fnoord 6y ago
  Youth here walk/hike/drive (with scooter) or go with public transport on top of car (if 18+). Obviously it doesn't work well if distances are huge. A car is useful in rural areas.
  - Schiendelman 6y ago
    And every year, fewer people live in rural America compared to those in cities. :)
- Schiendelman 6y ago
  Oh, I assert all that land use happened because of advertising and regulatory capture! The movie theater was in walking distance before the massive interstate highway giveaways.

akgerber 6y ago

As an American, the only time a car represents freedom to me is on a road trip through rural areas, and it's perfectly easy to rent one for that purpose. The rest of the time, it's a massively expensive and dangerous anchor.