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>One local school here threw away 50+ small dell quad-core i5's in their quest to make sure they spend their money wisely. I think broad computer illiteracy in

>One local school here threw away 50+ small dell quad-core i5's in their quest to make sure they spend their money wisely. I think broad computer illiteracy in the general population has convinced people that you "need" a new, powerful computer. In reality, 95% of the population can get away with any decent computer from the last 10 years. Grandma isn't training a neural net, she's checking Facebook. I continue to use a 2nd generation i3 desktop as a "daily driver" for a lot of my computing/server needs, without issue.

NikolaNovak 6y ago
Agreed; I've been getting refurbished ThinkPads for my entire family for 10-15 years now. Currently they're all enjoying T420 and T420s - technically a 9 year old laptop but goes up to 16GB of RAM if needed, will take an SSD easily, and runs everything necessary on Windows 10 easily enough. the S version in particular is as slim as you need a laptop to be, while still being completely modular, i.e. easily repairable and upgradable. My primary laptop is a newer T25 because I couldn't resist the keyboard, but my primary desktop is still a 9-year old AMD FX8350; with 32GB of RAM and SATA SSD, I game, Lightroom, Photoshop, VMWare Workstation, and anything else I need easily enough.
flyinghamster 6y ago
These days, even a low-end Android phone, taken back forty years, would be a supercomputer beyond anything that existed then. Unfortunately, layer after layer of framework on abstraction on framework on abstraction sometimes means that we need a supercomputer to render a user interface, and still end up with perceptible lag. :) Regarding elsewhere where I mentioned running BOINC on a Pi 4B, I'd also note that (at least from a RAC standpoint) it's almost up there with a ThinkPad X201 Tablet with an i7-640LM throttled to 1.2 GHz. If I switch the BIOS from "balanced" to "performance" mode, the ThinkPad will run a bit faster but within an inch of thermal shutdown. I might be able to overclock the Pi enough to achieve parity with the throttled i7. Eight years ago, I'd never had guessed that we'd see the Pi turn the corner to become a usable general-purpose desktop.
- ThrowawayR2 6y ago
  microSD cards don't really cut it for a general-purpose desktop in terms of lifespan and reliability and SSD over USB is an awkward workaround at best. Hopefully the RPi 5 will have NVMe or a SATA port at least.
  - seg_lol 6y ago
    I believe a CM4 module could fit in the same space. They were probably developed in parallel, so they couldn't afford to gate the Pi 400 on the CM4 timelines. Also, don't under estimate the performance of future SD cards. v0, get it shipped v1, improve
    - Drdrdrq 6y ago
      The issue with SD cards is not performance, it is longevity. I threw away more SD cards than I care to admit. :-/
      - seg_lol 6y ago
        What is your experience with the DVR series of SD cards? https://carcamcentral.com/guide/recommended-microsd-cards-for-dash-cameras https://carcamcentral.com/guide/recommended-microsd-cards-fo... I know there are other power down issues with SD cards and corruption well. I think in a class setting I would have important files replicated to an NFS server, with at least hourly snapshots.
      - throwaheyy 6y ago
        I’m surprised there isn’t a market solution for long-life (SSD lifespan) SD cards. SD card is just a physical/electrical interface, couldn’t manufacturers put more resilient flash circuitry inside?
        ThrowawayR2 6y ago
        Specialized industrial use SLC microSD cards exist (e.g. https://www.avnet.com/shop/us/products/sandisk/sdsdqed-064g-xi-3074457345639505458 https://www.avnet.com/shop/us/products/sandisk/sdsdqed-064g-...) but they cost a lot and have smaller capacities because they use SLC.
chrisweekly 6y ago
You said it. Heck, my 2012 macbook pro retina (15) is still usable as a daily driver .
codethief 6y ago
> I continue to use a 2nd generation i3 desktop as a "daily driver" for a lot of my computing/server needs, without issue. +1 for i3. Been using my Thinkpad W510 with i3 non-stop since 2010 and it's still working like a charm. For the past months, though, I've had to use a Dell XPS 13 for work. Now that I've equipped it with i3, as well, it's merely using 3.5W while I'm doing ordinary computer work and some coding, meaning that I can get 15 hours of battery life easily, and often even 20h. Absolutely mind-blowing.

NikolaNovak 6y ago

Agreed; I've been getting refurbished ThinkPads for my entire family for 10-15 years now. Currently they're all enjoying T420 and T420s - technically a 9 year old laptop but goes up to 16GB of RAM if needed, will take an SSD easily, and runs everything necessary on Windows 10 easily enough. the S version in particular is as slim as you need a laptop to be, while still being completely modular, i.e. easily repairable and upgradable. My primary laptop is a newer T25 because I couldn't resist the keyboard, but my primary desktop is still a 9-year old AMD FX8350; with 32GB of RAM and SATA SSD, I game, Lightroom, Photoshop, VMWare Workstation, and anything else I need easily enough.

flyinghamster 6y ago

These days, even a low-end Android phone, taken back forty years, would be a supercomputer beyond anything that existed then. Unfortunately, layer after layer of framework on abstraction on framework on abstraction sometimes means that we need a supercomputer to render a user interface, and still end up with perceptible lag. :) Regarding elsewhere where I mentioned running BOINC on a Pi 4B, I'd also note that (at least from a RAC standpoint) it's almost up there with a ThinkPad X201 Tablet with an i7-640LM throttled to 1.2 GHz. If I switch the BIOS from "balanced" to "performance" mode, the ThinkPad will run a bit faster but within an inch of thermal shutdown. I might be able to overclock the Pi enough to achieve parity with the throttled i7. Eight years ago, I'd never had guessed that we'd see the Pi turn the corner to become a usable general-purpose desktop.

ThrowawayR2 6y ago
microSD cards don't really cut it for a general-purpose desktop in terms of lifespan and reliability and SSD over USB is an awkward workaround at best. Hopefully the RPi 5 will have NVMe or a SATA port at least.
- seg_lol 6y ago
  I believe a CM4 module could fit in the same space. They were probably developed in parallel, so they couldn't afford to gate the Pi 400 on the CM4 timelines. Also, don't under estimate the performance of future SD cards. v0, get it shipped v1, improve
  - Drdrdrq 6y ago
    The issue with SD cards is not performance, it is longevity. I threw away more SD cards than I care to admit. :-/
    - seg_lol 6y ago
      What is your experience with the DVR series of SD cards? https://carcamcentral.com/guide/recommended-microsd-cards-for-dash-cameras https://carcamcentral.com/guide/recommended-microsd-cards-fo... I know there are other power down issues with SD cards and corruption well. I think in a class setting I would have important files replicated to an NFS server, with at least hourly snapshots.
    - throwaheyy 6y ago
      I’m surprised there isn’t a market solution for long-life (SSD lifespan) SD cards. SD card is just a physical/electrical interface, couldn’t manufacturers put more resilient flash circuitry inside?
      - ThrowawayR2 6y ago
        Specialized industrial use SLC microSD cards exist (e.g. https://www.avnet.com/shop/us/products/sandisk/sdsdqed-064g-xi-3074457345639505458 https://www.avnet.com/shop/us/products/sandisk/sdsdqed-064g-...) but they cost a lot and have smaller capacities because they use SLC.

chrisweekly 6y ago

You said it. Heck, my 2012 macbook pro retina (15) is still usable as a daily driver .

codethief 6y ago

> I continue to use a 2nd generation i3 desktop as a "daily driver" for a lot of my computing/server needs, without issue. +1 for i3. Been using my Thinkpad W510 with i3 non-stop since 2010 and it's still working like a charm. For the past months, though, I've had to use a Dell XPS 13 for work. Now that I've equipped it with i3, as well, it's merely using 3.5W while I'm doing ordinary computer work and some coding, meaning that I can get 15 hours of battery life easily, and often even 20h. Absolutely mind-blowing.