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> First principles suggested I stop faffing around with diets that operate on clever narratives, assumptions and "magic" rules, and just look at what the scienc

by Jedd 6y ago

> First principles suggested I stop faffing around with diets that operate on clever narratives, assumptions and "magic" rules, and just look at what the science said. And the science was pretty consistent - calories matter above all else. I don't believe 'the science' is consistent about this at all. Tim Ferris cites lots of science when writing 'The Four Hour Body' a decade ago, and decades before that Atkins had a fair amount of science to back up similar observations & claims -- not all calories are equal. Eschewing carbohydrates (a word that doesn't appear in TFA) and filling up on proteins (appears once in relation to a supplement) and fats (appears only twice - once referring to being fat as a child, the other as an adjective for yogurt) will get you most of the way 'there', if 'there' is gentle weight loss / management that's easier to maintain than calorie counting.

runawaybottle 6y ago
From my experience, progress is a good motivator to keep pushing it. When you start on low carb or something like Keto, you’ll get progress for sure. If you want more progress beyond that, you will simply not be able to deny that a calorie is a calorie. You have to reduce calories, period.
- Jedd 6y ago
  That was not my experience. In 2012 I followed the Four Hour Body approach - eat enough to never feel hungry after a meal, reduce carbs (beans & pulses, mainly) so it's not keto, drink more, avoid 'white things' (rice, flour, sugar), bump up your meal size to compensate for the absence of carbs, have one cheat day a week to keep you sane (eat as much as you like or whatever you like for lunch & dinner on that one day). Jot down everything you eat - it helps motivate you to not eat poorly. Measure everything - well, as much as you can. I used some Omron body composition scales - probably not hugely accurate in the absolute, but more than sufficiently accurate in the relative. So I have a google spreadsheet that over the space of 18 months has daily weigh-in data, and very detailed descriptions of everything I ate each day. (It was quite the adventure, though I'd be unlikely do it again.) I reiterate -- this graph shows changes in my mass during a period where I was never calorie-counting, never felt hungry, wasn't in keto, and felt the approach could be sustained long-term without threatening sanity. My modest amount of exercise - the occasional bicycle ride - did not change during this period. Viz. https://jeddi.org/c/2013-01-01-4hb-mass.png https://jeddi.org/c/2013-01-01-4hb-mass.png
  - RikNieu 6y ago
    That's awesome results! I did the slow carb diet too when the book came out, didn't work for me. Made me sick and lethargic. And I didn't lose any weight. To each his own, I guess
martinko 6y ago
Exactly. And to add, it may be easier to achieve a caloric deficit with some foods than with others. When I am on a ketogenic diet, I always eat to satiation but still manage to lose bodyfat.
- RikNieu 6y ago
  Sure, like lean meats and veggies. It when you eat manufactured stuff or extremely fat cuts of meat when things go south.
AnIdiotOnTheNet 6y ago
> not all calories are equal. Irrelevant. You can eat nothing but twinkies and still lose weight as long as you maintain a caloric deficit. Certain foods are going to make that easier and healthier, but that's orthogonal to the actual weight loss.
- RikNieu 6y ago
  I remember reading about a professor who demonstrated this to his students by only eating McDonalds and losing a ton of weight.
  - AnIdiotOnTheNet 6y ago
    It was twinkies and other junk food: http://www.cnn.com/2010/HEALTH/11/08/twinkie.diet.professor/index.html http://www.cnn.com/2010/HEALTH/11/08/twinkie.diet.professor/...
- timbit42 6y ago
  You can but you will be hungry and it will be very difficult. You want to avoid carbs and sugar because carbs get turned into sugar and they spike your sugar levels, causing your pancreas to produce insulin to tell your body to store the excess sugar in your fat cells. Then when the excess sugar is all stored, you get the crash and you're hungry again. This is why people want to snack between meals. Instead, avoid carbs and eat proteins and healthy fats. You won't get the sugar spike and crash, and will last hours without getting hungry. It is easy to eat only twice a day this way. This video of Dr. Sarah Hallberg explains it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=da1vvigy5tQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=da1vvigy5tQ
- Jedd 6y ago
  My point is that not all calories are equal as far as the consumer is concerned. As others have noted, eating RDI (or just under) with only carbs - eg the twinkies diet - would be tiring and soul-destroying, likely very difficult to sustain. Eating the same amount (calories) of proteins and fats would keep you much happier and healthier. Eating a lot more (calories) of proteins and fats, and avoiding as many carbs as possible, and you're probably lose weight without having to track & maintain a 'caloric deficit' state.

by Jedd 6y ago

runawaybottle 6y ago

From my experience, progress is a good motivator to keep pushing it. When you start on low carb or something like Keto, you’ll get progress for sure. If you want more progress beyond that, you will simply not be able to deny that a calorie is a calorie. You have to reduce calories, period.

Jedd 6y ago
That was not my experience. In 2012 I followed the Four Hour Body approach - eat enough to never feel hungry after a meal, reduce carbs (beans & pulses, mainly) so it's not keto, drink more, avoid 'white things' (rice, flour, sugar), bump up your meal size to compensate for the absence of carbs, have one cheat day a week to keep you sane (eat as much as you like or whatever you like for lunch & dinner on that one day). Jot down everything you eat - it helps motivate you to not eat poorly. Measure everything - well, as much as you can. I used some Omron body composition scales - probably not hugely accurate in the absolute, but more than sufficiently accurate in the relative. So I have a google spreadsheet that over the space of 18 months has daily weigh-in data, and very detailed descriptions of everything I ate each day. (It was quite the adventure, though I'd be unlikely do it again.) I reiterate -- this graph shows changes in my mass during a period where I was never calorie-counting, never felt hungry, wasn't in keto, and felt the approach could be sustained long-term without threatening sanity. My modest amount of exercise - the occasional bicycle ride - did not change during this period. Viz. https://jeddi.org/c/2013-01-01-4hb-mass.png https://jeddi.org/c/2013-01-01-4hb-mass.png
- RikNieu 6y ago
  That's awesome results! I did the slow carb diet too when the book came out, didn't work for me. Made me sick and lethargic. And I didn't lose any weight. To each his own, I guess

martinko 6y ago

Exactly. And to add, it may be easier to achieve a caloric deficit with some foods than with others. When I am on a ketogenic diet, I always eat to satiation but still manage to lose bodyfat.

RikNieu 6y ago
Sure, like lean meats and veggies. It when you eat manufactured stuff or extremely fat cuts of meat when things go south.

AnIdiotOnTheNet 6y ago

> not all calories are equal. Irrelevant. You can eat nothing but twinkies and still lose weight as long as you maintain a caloric deficit. Certain foods are going to make that easier and healthier, but that's orthogonal to the actual weight loss.

RikNieu 6y ago
I remember reading about a professor who demonstrated this to his students by only eating McDonalds and losing a ton of weight.
- AnIdiotOnTheNet 6y ago
  It was twinkies and other junk food: http://www.cnn.com/2010/HEALTH/11/08/twinkie.diet.professor/index.html http://www.cnn.com/2010/HEALTH/11/08/twinkie.diet.professor/...
timbit42 6y ago
You can but you will be hungry and it will be very difficult. You want to avoid carbs and sugar because carbs get turned into sugar and they spike your sugar levels, causing your pancreas to produce insulin to tell your body to store the excess sugar in your fat cells. Then when the excess sugar is all stored, you get the crash and you're hungry again. This is why people want to snack between meals. Instead, avoid carbs and eat proteins and healthy fats. You won't get the sugar spike and crash, and will last hours without getting hungry. It is easy to eat only twice a day this way. This video of Dr. Sarah Hallberg explains it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=da1vvigy5tQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=da1vvigy5tQ
Jedd 6y ago
My point is that not all calories are equal as far as the consumer is concerned. As others have noted, eating RDI (or just under) with only carbs - eg the twinkies diet - would be tiring and soul-destroying, likely very difficult to sustain. Eating the same amount (calories) of proteins and fats would keep you much happier and healthier. Eating a lot more (calories) of proteins and fats, and avoiding as many carbs as possible, and you're probably lose weight without having to track & maintain a 'caloric deficit' state.