4 ms·

It's amazing how any time this comes up someone has to pile in "but I drive 1000km a day so it will never work". Buddy, there are allowed to outliers. It just h

It's amazing how any time this comes up someone has to pile in "but I drive 1000km a day so it will never work". Buddy, there are allowed to outliers. It just has to work for most people most of the time. Anyway, some actual data. Most cars spend the vast majority of their time going exactly nowhere: https://www.racfoundation.org/motoring-faqs/mobility#a5 https://www.racfoundation.org/motoring-faqs/mobility#a5 The average trip is 8 miles (same source, both in the UK. You can find data for your country. Might also look at https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0191261516309067 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S019126151...) Plenty of time to charge from a domestic charger, and no range issue with current electric cars (which have >200 mile range).

Infinitesimus 6y ago
I think for most people, it is the desire for: 1. One do-everything car (short and long trips without pre-planning) 2. Living in an apartment so no overnight charging. Even with 200mi range, you have to ensure there are chargers en route because they are still sparse and it still takes a long time to charge the car. Gas vehicles still win because in most places, you can expect a gas station within 50 miles and the time penalty is 5 mins vs hours. Sparse city charging infrastructure also mean makes charging much harder. We're getting better but imo electric cars in the US at least are still limited to wealthier folks with houses that have charging stations and some city dwellers in nice apartment complexes. I hope we see a good sub 30k electric car soon to shake things up.
- bluGill 6y ago
  The way fixed costs work few people drive enough to make owning two cars for different purposes worth it. The big SUV might be only needed a few times a year, but it is cheaper to pay for it all year long than to also pay for a small car. Rental cars are expensive enough that they are out. For a while I did make a tiny car and a SUV work, but I had to drive ~100 miles a day for work and even then it just barely worked out.
forinti 6y ago
Only cars as big/heavy as golf carts should really be allowed inside cities. That would drastically reduce pollution (both air and noise) and also all but eliminate fatalities and injuries.
- michaelmrose 6y ago
  This sounds wildly impractical as it would be 100% useless outside the city and due to cost many commute from outside the city. Are you expecting people to drive an hour to the outskirts then commute by bus once in or own 2 cars per commuter?
  - adrianN 6y ago
    They should commute 15 minutes to the next rail station and take the train to the city. This model already works for a lot of people and public transport can be improved so that it works for most people.
    - bluGill 6y ago
      The problem is you can't get there from here. The costs to build a rail system where it doesn't exist are very high, and until you have most of the system in place it is useless to most people. Of course we built a road system - without paved roads cars are mostly useless. We have build rail systems in the past as well. The problem isn't unsolvable by the nature of the problem. It is unsolvable because you can't get the right people to make long term investments in it (don't look to government - anyone who tries will be voted out eventually at best the system changes course from one okay system to a different incompatible system, though more likely they just stop investing).
    - michaelmrose 6y ago
      Anyone who proposed this idea can enjoy their retirement when voters fire them. People own actual cars now. They have arranged their lives around currently available modes of transportation including distance between work and homes. They don't live a good distance from work because they want to they do because they can't afford to do otherwise. If you told one of the multitude of people who commute via car they have to spend 5000 on a clown car and an an hour to their commute which amounts to 500 hours annually or 20 days spent commuting they would be in your front yard with torches. Instead what you need is enough housing to bring its price low enough for more people to live closer to work and enough transit that people want to use it not a clown car mandate. When you have successfully convinced most people to commute differently you can start to limit cars not before.
hinkley 6y ago
There are people still driving 65 Mustangs. In US public policy we are the kings of the Grandfather Clause. Every model of ICE vehicle known for drivetrain longevity will suddenly become coveted by the road warrior class, and that 0.1% of the population will compete over them for the next 20 years while peak mileage and recharge speed of all-electrics goes up. My sedan has better handling than the roadster I had as a young man. When I tried to relive that in my 30's, it didn't pan out. In the sedan, I won't die instantly in a t-bone or any accident with a truck. Antilock brakes are life. Things change and antique vehicles become quainter by the year, and at some point you'll have a brief period of mourning and switch without another fuss. But you have time for it to happen organically. Or, hybrid vehicles will stay legal for a long time, and you will just own one of those and leave the rest of us alone.

Infinitesimus 6y ago

I think for most people, it is the desire for: 1. One do-everything car (short and long trips without pre-planning) 2. Living in an apartment so no overnight charging. Even with 200mi range, you have to ensure there are chargers en route because they are still sparse and it still takes a long time to charge the car. Gas vehicles still win because in most places, you can expect a gas station within 50 miles and the time penalty is 5 mins vs hours. Sparse city charging infrastructure also mean makes charging much harder. We're getting better but imo electric cars in the US at least are still limited to wealthier folks with houses that have charging stations and some city dwellers in nice apartment complexes. I hope we see a good sub 30k electric car soon to shake things up.

bluGill 6y ago
The way fixed costs work few people drive enough to make owning two cars for different purposes worth it. The big SUV might be only needed a few times a year, but it is cheaper to pay for it all year long than to also pay for a small car. Rental cars are expensive enough that they are out. For a while I did make a tiny car and a SUV work, but I had to drive ~100 miles a day for work and even then it just barely worked out.

forinti 6y ago

Only cars as big/heavy as golf carts should really be allowed inside cities. That would drastically reduce pollution (both air and noise) and also all but eliminate fatalities and injuries.

michaelmrose 6y ago
This sounds wildly impractical as it would be 100% useless outside the city and due to cost many commute from outside the city. Are you expecting people to drive an hour to the outskirts then commute by bus once in or own 2 cars per commuter?
- adrianN 6y ago
  They should commute 15 minutes to the next rail station and take the train to the city. This model already works for a lot of people and public transport can be improved so that it works for most people.
  - bluGill 6y ago
    The problem is you can't get there from here. The costs to build a rail system where it doesn't exist are very high, and until you have most of the system in place it is useless to most people. Of course we built a road system - without paved roads cars are mostly useless. We have build rail systems in the past as well. The problem isn't unsolvable by the nature of the problem. It is unsolvable because you can't get the right people to make long term investments in it (don't look to government - anyone who tries will be voted out eventually at best the system changes course from one okay system to a different incompatible system, though more likely they just stop investing).
  - michaelmrose 6y ago
    Anyone who proposed this idea can enjoy their retirement when voters fire them. People own actual cars now. They have arranged their lives around currently available modes of transportation including distance between work and homes. They don't live a good distance from work because they want to they do because they can't afford to do otherwise. If you told one of the multitude of people who commute via car they have to spend 5000 on a clown car and an an hour to their commute which amounts to 500 hours annually or 20 days spent commuting they would be in your front yard with torches. Instead what you need is enough housing to bring its price low enough for more people to live closer to work and enough transit that people want to use it not a clown car mandate. When you have successfully convinced most people to commute differently you can start to limit cars not before.

hinkley 6y ago

There are people still driving 65 Mustangs. In US public policy we are the kings of the Grandfather Clause. Every model of ICE vehicle known for drivetrain longevity will suddenly become coveted by the road warrior class, and that 0.1% of the population will compete over them for the next 20 years while peak mileage and recharge speed of all-electrics goes up. My sedan has better handling than the roadster I had as a young man. When I tried to relive that in my 30's, it didn't pan out. In the sedan, I won't die instantly in a t-bone or any accident with a truck. Antilock brakes are life. Things change and antique vehicles become quainter by the year, and at some point you'll have a brief period of mourning and switch without another fuss. But you have time for it to happen organically. Or, hybrid vehicles will stay legal for a long time, and you will just own one of those and leave the rest of us alone.