5 ms·

Not good enough for many of my friends, I'm afraid. It would definitely not be an option for me, I drive 1200km in roughly 12h - 14h each night, for 2w long tou

Not good enough for many of my friends, I'm afraid. It would definitely not be an option for me, I drive 1200km in roughly 12h - 14h each night, for 2w long tours: - Heviz to Saint Tropez 1200km - Empuriabrava to Malaga 1100km - Porto to Andorra 1100km - Krakow to Bucharest 1200km - other shorter trips (700km-800km) ----- - business trip Bucharest to Leipzig 1600km (I go much farther without passengers) - Leizig to London 1200km (slow ferry) - etc I drive a diesel and it's just excellent for my family's holidaying, we would be wasting considerable time charging, reducing the overall time to enjoy the tour's destinations.

wastedhours 6y ago
I mean, impressive mileage - but you must definitely be an outlier with those numbers in single trips I'd imagine. Also, if you're only do those kinds of numbers a few weeks a year, you could have an electric car for 50 weeks of the year and then hire a diesel one for the longer stints? That being said, it'll only be a couple more generations of tech before we're getting fast charge in the 15-20 minute ranges. By the time you've done a full-tank fill, used the toilets, picked up a few Rom bars in the shop and paid - you probably wont lose much time. (I'm still a car lover, but change is coming, and it'd be hard to argue with it in a few more years).
- bluGill 6y ago
  The fixed costs of owning two cars means that it rarely works out. Rental cars can work, but again the math rarely works out because it is so expensive to rent a large car.
  - jfk13 6y ago
    I also worry that in the hypothetical world where most people just own a small electric for local daily use, and rent a large diesel (or whatever) for the family holiday, demand for those larger, longer-range vehicles will be extremely seasonal. It may not be viable to maintain a large fleet of family-vacation-type vehicles just to satisfy the demand for summer holidays in August and ski trips in February.
  - wastedhours 6y ago
    I did mention rental, 100% agree owning two would be absurd. For rentals, it might end up being more expensive now, but that's not really my point, the daily practicality (both in fuel savings lugging around a huge car for 50 extra weeks a year) and in ease of having a smaller, easier to manoeuvre, potentially cheaper to maintain electric car are not only on a cost basis. This is merely an interstitial time until you can run from Bucharest to Leipzig with fast charge stations in every town and village along the route.
rienbdj 6y ago
Are you a trucker? That is an alarming carbon footprint for a day-to-day lifestyle. Fortunately, most do not need to travel so far for work.
Reason077 6y ago
I’m curious, what do you do during the day when you’re driving for 12-14 hours each night on these 2-week tours? Sleep, I would assume! Why not sleep at night and drive during the day (traffic?) Aren’t you “wasting considerable time” by having to sleep as soon as you arrive at your tour destinations?
- randunel 6y ago
  Indeed, I sleep before and after long drives, but not for 8 full hours, I catch up, eventually. However, my family gets to go shopping, buys groceries etc while I rest for a few. For some reason, I seem to be functioning just fine making up for lost sleep by sleeping in every other day. Perhaps "each night" isn't the right choice of words, "every 3 nights or so" would be more accurate.
arghwhat 6y ago
Your example is an extreme outlier (even if you have friends with similar usage), and is irrelevant to the general practicality of electric cars. And yet, it's still doable. The vast majority of car users do not refuel a full tank daily, which is a good indicator of their driving habits being perfectly compatible with overnight slow-charging with plenty of capacity to spare. (If the user normally refueled a full tank daily, and got an electric car with a small battery, work-place slow-charging might be needed.) The vast majority, should they go on a long car trip (note that this universally popular), will not be doing completely uninterrupted driving for 12 hours. They will need at least a few sizable breaks for food, toilet and leg stretching. If breaks are taken around a fast charger, a 20 minute break can give you 50% charge, 40 minutes giving 80% charge. If the drive is for vacationing, the stops will likely all be long enough for full charges as people see the sights. Even with your driving, it seems reasonable to pull off with fast charging, assuming you have human physiological needs and assuming you drive safely and responsibly (i.e. break with rest every N hours to not lose attention and fall asleep, where N is usually ~4). Maybe your average speed would drop a bit, but that's not that important.

wastedhours 6y ago

I mean, impressive mileage - but you must definitely be an outlier with those numbers in single trips I'd imagine. Also, if you're only do those kinds of numbers a few weeks a year, you could have an electric car for 50 weeks of the year and then hire a diesel one for the longer stints? That being said, it'll only be a couple more generations of tech before we're getting fast charge in the 15-20 minute ranges. By the time you've done a full-tank fill, used the toilets, picked up a few Rom bars in the shop and paid - you probably wont lose much time. (I'm still a car lover, but change is coming, and it'd be hard to argue with it in a few more years).

bluGill 6y ago
The fixed costs of owning two cars means that it rarely works out. Rental cars can work, but again the math rarely works out because it is so expensive to rent a large car.
- jfk13 6y ago
  I also worry that in the hypothetical world where most people just own a small electric for local daily use, and rent a large diesel (or whatever) for the family holiday, demand for those larger, longer-range vehicles will be extremely seasonal. It may not be viable to maintain a large fleet of family-vacation-type vehicles just to satisfy the demand for summer holidays in August and ski trips in February.
- wastedhours 6y ago
  I did mention rental, 100% agree owning two would be absurd. For rentals, it might end up being more expensive now, but that's not really my point, the daily practicality (both in fuel savings lugging around a huge car for 50 extra weeks a year) and in ease of having a smaller, easier to manoeuvre, potentially cheaper to maintain electric car are not only on a cost basis. This is merely an interstitial time until you can run from Bucharest to Leipzig with fast charge stations in every town and village along the route.

rienbdj 6y ago

Are you a trucker? That is an alarming carbon footprint for a day-to-day lifestyle. Fortunately, most do not need to travel so far for work.

Reason077 6y ago

I’m curious, what do you do during the day when you’re driving for 12-14 hours each night on these 2-week tours? Sleep, I would assume! Why not sleep at night and drive during the day (traffic?) Aren’t you “wasting considerable time” by having to sleep as soon as you arrive at your tour destinations?

randunel 6y ago
Indeed, I sleep before and after long drives, but not for 8 full hours, I catch up, eventually. However, my family gets to go shopping, buys groceries etc while I rest for a few. For some reason, I seem to be functioning just fine making up for lost sleep by sleeping in every other day. Perhaps "each night" isn't the right choice of words, "every 3 nights or so" would be more accurate.

arghwhat 6y ago

Your example is an extreme outlier (even if you have friends with similar usage), and is irrelevant to the general practicality of electric cars. And yet, it's still doable. The vast majority of car users do not refuel a full tank daily, which is a good indicator of their driving habits being perfectly compatible with overnight slow-charging with plenty of capacity to spare. (If the user normally refueled a full tank daily, and got an electric car with a small battery, work-place slow-charging might be needed.) The vast majority, should they go on a long car trip (note that this universally popular), will not be doing completely uninterrupted driving for 12 hours. They will need at least a few sizable breaks for food, toilet and leg stretching. If breaks are taken around a fast charger, a 20 minute break can give you 50% charge, 40 minutes giving 80% charge. If the drive is for vacationing, the stops will likely all be long enough for full charges as people see the sights. Even with your driving, it seems reasonable to pull off with fast charging, assuming you have human physiological needs and assuming you drive safely and responsibly (i.e. break with rest every N hours to not lose attention and fall asleep, where N is usually ~4). Maybe your average speed would drop a bit, but that's not that important.