8 ms·

I was lucky to get a pre-release version to test, and I decided to tear it down before I started trying it out. I posted this blog post with detailed pictures o

I was lucky to get a pre-release version to test, and I decided to tear it down before I started trying it out. I posted this blog post with detailed pictures of the insides, and some more details and performance benchmarks: https://www.jeffgeerling.com/blog/2020/raspberry-pi-400-teardown-and-review https://www.jeffgeerling.com/blog/2020/raspberry-pi-400-tear... There are also a couple videos linked in the post, if you're more visually-inclined. Fun fact: the Pi 400 (and Compute Module 4) both have newer revisions of the BCM2711 SoC (C0 instead of B0), and that's part of the reason the clock speed is higher on the Pi 400 (1.8 GHz) than on the regular Pi 4 model B (1.5 GHz)—the newer revision apparently handles faster clocks and scaling with less heat than the older revision.

avian 6y ago
One comment regarding your "performance comparison" graph. Is the "dd" result read or write? I wondered the same thing with your Compute Module 4 post.
- geerlingguy 6y ago
  It's write speed; sorry about that, I should probably be more specific! All the benchmarks I'm using are from this Wiki page (http://www.pidramble.com/wiki/benchmarks/microsd-cards http://www.pidramble.com/wiki/benchmarks/microsd-cards) — though I need to update that page to include some more USB/SATA/NVMe performance benchmarks since I'm now using a lot more drives with the Pi 4 and CM4 (and skipping microSD entirely for most builds).
drcongo 6y ago
On the subject of heat, how is it on this thing? I've heard stories about the Pi 4 B.
- ygra 6y ago
  There's an aluminium plate that serves as a heat sink and appears to work quite well, apparently.
- flyinghamster 6y ago
  According to the article, it isn't a problem; the heat sink is big enough to not need a fan. Nice bonus that it's a slightly faster SoC. I have a Pi 4B with a heat sink and fan that's running BOINC 24x7 (yielding a RAC of about 750-775 on World Community Grid), and with the fan connected to 3.3V it runs at a comfortable 52-54°C with absolutely no throttling. I think I'm going to try overclocking it a bit and see how it handles it.
- MivLives 6y ago
  They pushed out a firmware update last year that apparently solves some of the heat issues. https://www.raspberrypi.org/blog/thermal-testing-raspberry-pi-4/ https://www.raspberrypi.org/blog/thermal-testing-raspberry-p...
- geerlingguy 6y ago
  It runs cooler than the Pi 4 model B, at a higher clock speed. The newer chip helps with that, in addition to the massive heat sink on top of it!
satysin 6y ago
Just watched a few videos on your channel and love it. Really great stuff. I love this Pi 400 and think in the new year I will pick one up for my son. We have a Pi 4 that we use a lot and he loves but like you say in your video it is a bit annoying with this little box off the side with a bunch of cables coming out of it. Not terrible by any means just annoying so I really love the form factor of it all being in the keyboard. I have thought for a while now they should do this kind of form factor or sell a simple RPi branded monitor with a Pi built in so I am happy to see they thought about it too. A keyboard is much more practical than a monitor of course so it is a far more sensible choice! Really hope this sells well and they continue with this kind of form factor in the future. Even a slightly bigger keyboard with a "forehead" (C64 vibes) would be excellent.
- FerretFred 6y ago
  >simple RPi branded monitor with a Pi built in Oh, I'd definitely be up for that!!
  - m-p-3 6y ago
    And make it easy to upgrade or replace later on!
  - curryst 6y ago
    You could probably DIY that with an RPi case pretty easy, using the VESA mount holes on the back of the monitor. Most of my monitors have two different size VESA mounts, and my monitor mounts use the smaller size, meaning I have 4 extra screw holes on the back of all my monitors, and conveniently nearly all the VESA mounts take standard M4 bolts. If your VESA mounts are close enough together, you can just drill holes directly in the RPi case and mount it to the back of the monitor. If they're too far apart, use the mounts to put in a plastic or wood bar, then drill holes through the RPi case and the bar (while not attached to the monitor), then mount the case to the bar and the bar to the monitor. I've looked at doing similar in the past, but I wanted to make the mounting block along the bottom of the monitor with the SD card exposed. That way I can set up a series of SD cards to test with. Want to test something on Ubuntu 18.04? Cool, switch monitor 2 to input 2 (the RPi) and then swap the SD card out to the Ubuntu 18.04 one and you're ready to rock. It's not as easy as a Docker container, but I'm often using the GPIO pins and I don't have the desire to try to make GPIO pins work in Docker. It might not even be that hard, I just don't feel like adding another step to my troubleshooting.
KaiserPro 6y ago
Excellent, I was looking for this sort of info. (side note, I love the ansible roles you've made, especially AWX, saved me a bunch of time back in 2018)
tyingq 6y ago
How is the keyboard? It looks, uh, cheap, so I'm curious if typing on it is an ok experience.
- gh02t 6y ago
  At least superficially it looks like it might be the same basic keyboard as the official Raspberry Pi keyboard that they already had. If so the experience is... not great but not horrible. It's not the worst chiclet keyboard I've used, I'd rate it as adequate. You would not want to use it as your primary keyboard all day, but that's also not what it's intended for.
- timw4mail 6y ago
  (This is assuming the existing keyboards are the same) Pretty decent scissor-switch, but one of mine squeaks when typing some.
- numlock86 6y ago
  The Pi Keyboard was decent. I would expect this to be the same just with the Pi integrated.
  - geerlingguy 6y ago
    This is literally the exact same keyboard surface and mechanism as the Pi Keyboard, so it's good, not amazing. I can type fine on it, though I still prefer an Apple Magic Keyboard (latest version) for daily typing since the body of it is slightly more solid. I'm not a mechanical keyboard fan, though I know many would like that kind of keyboard here, and it would be more fitting for the nostalgia!
    - leoc 6y ago
      Some of the '80s home micros like the Sinclair ZX81 and ZX Spectrum and the Atari 400 had keyboards which were dire by modern standards, or in fact by contemporary standards. Even the "mechanical" keyboards with full travel tended to be disappointing https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KNa2UdagTGU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KNa2UdagTGU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sN8WHp_QmoE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sN8WHp_QmoE . In comparison the RPi 400's keyboard is probably well above the mean. Still we might see some third-party replacement cases with mechanical keyboards, like the ones which came out for the ZX81: https://k1.spdns.de/Vintage/Sinclair/80/Peripherals/Keyboards/dk%27tronics%20Keyboard/ https://k1.spdns.de/Vintage/Sinclair/80/Peripherals/Keyboard... https://k1.spdns.de/Vintage/Sinclair/80/Peripherals/Keyboards/dk%27tronics%20Keyboard/Keyboard.jpg https://k1.spdns.de/Vintage/Sinclair/80/Peripherals/Keyboard... .
prox 6y ago
Can you use the keyboard.... as a keyboard for other computers?
- omk 6y ago
  With a little bit of code, you should be able to pipe keyboard input to one of the USB ports.
  - daemin 6y ago
    There's a project that did that but for a different purpose - a network KVM using a Pi4 - https://mtlynch.io/tinypilot/ https://mtlynch.io/tinypilot/ It had to use the one USB-C connector that's used for power for emulating the keyboard and mouse since that's the only one that supported USB-OTG. So you kind of either need PoE or another adapter to both power the device and be able to hae the Pi act as an input device.
- sdenton4 6y ago
  One of my main uses for random keyboards is hooking them onto a raspberry pi that needs some local debugging...
- geerlingguy 6y ago
  Yes, I think Gordon Hollingsworth from Raspberry Pi has posted somewhere specifically how to do it (maybe in the comments on the post on the Pi website?).
  - prox 6y ago
    Found it! Merci :) >It would be possible to do this, but you’d have to run a simple buildroot SD card which runs a suitable dwc2 OTG HID driver to pretend it is a keyboard… Otherwise, you can use the Pi 400 as a Barrier server to the other computer… See my other blog post for details! Gordon
    - undersuit 6y ago
      Nice, it's probably using the USB gadget functionality. That probably means you could modify the image to access a bunch of the ports. Having the ability to turn my Pi Debugging Keyboard into a USB Ethernet adapter would have some advantages.
JKCalhoun 6y ago
Curious if you have any specs on the ribbon cable that connects the keyboard. It looks like it must carry more than USB?
Abishek_Muthian 6y ago
Hey Jeff, I recently bought the RPi Keyboard Hub (Pictured in OP and In parent blog) for its soft keys (Got bone issues), I was pleasantly surprised with the quality. I use Wacom Touch Tablet for trackpad along with a Steel series mouse in its Hub; But I'm worried about saturating the bandwidth as it's just USB 2.0 although I haven't found any conclusive issues. Have you tested the Keyboard hub's limits? Controller seems to be QinHeng Electronics USB-Serial.
pedroaraujo 6y ago
This is slightly disappointing, I was expecting it to be some kind of case for the the Compute Module (or at least for the RPi4. I don't know if it's unrealistic, but it would be nice to have some sort of upgrade or repair possibilities.
- wtracy 6y ago
  That seems to more or less already exist: https://shop.pimoroni.com/products/raspberry-pi-keyboard https://shop.pimoroni.com/products/raspberry-pi-keyboard
  - undersuit 6y ago
    Sorry, that's just a keyboard with a USB hub.
- dualboot 6y ago
  I agree, I wish this was the case but it's still a compelling gift for my nieces and nephews and tickles my nostalgia for the era of computing that it mimics.
bakul 6y ago
Have you tried the coffee spilling test on it yet?
cpascal 6y ago
Just wanted to say that I've been watching your Pi videos on YouTube over the last few months and I really enjoy them. Your video about trying to get a GPU working with a Raspberry Pi was particularly fascinating. Keep up the great work.
908B64B197 6y ago
> Fun fact: the Pi 400 (and Compute Module 4) both have newer revisions of the BCM2711 SoC (C0 instead of B0), and that's part of the reason the clock speed is higher on the Pi 400 (1.8 GHz) than on the regular Pi 4 model B (1.5 GHz)—the newer revision apparently handles faster clocks and scaling with less heat than the older revision. Reading your article > the Pi 400 didn't overheat even when I was running it with an overclock to 2.147 GHz, the maximum it allows currently This only makes me wish they sold an 800 version with 8 GB of RAM, just like the Pi 4.
- happycube 6y ago
  ... and a mechanical keyboard, to complete the possibly unintentional Atari reference. (Folklore says the original product plan had the Atari 400 come with 4K of RAM, and the 800 8K... and then memory got cheaper by release.)
kovek 6y ago
Thank you geerlingguy for your ansible repositories!!
ThePowerOfFuet 6y ago
Edit: It looks like they're affiliate links for monetization, so what I said doesn't apply in this case as they're not the usual tracking crap Amazon et al commonly add to their sharing links. --- You might want to replace the link to the plexiglass cutter to remove the tracking info (linking everyone who clicks it back to you); here's the smallest you can get it: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000BZZ1D0 https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000BZZ1D0 The same goes for your SD card links.

avian 6y ago

One comment regarding your "performance comparison" graph. Is the "dd" result read or write? I wondered the same thing with your Compute Module 4 post.

geerlingguy 6y ago
It's write speed; sorry about that, I should probably be more specific! All the benchmarks I'm using are from this Wiki page (http://www.pidramble.com/wiki/benchmarks/microsd-cards http://www.pidramble.com/wiki/benchmarks/microsd-cards) — though I need to update that page to include some more USB/SATA/NVMe performance benchmarks since I'm now using a lot more drives with the Pi 4 and CM4 (and skipping microSD entirely for most builds).

drcongo 6y ago

On the subject of heat, how is it on this thing? I've heard stories about the Pi 4 B.

ygra 6y ago
There's an aluminium plate that serves as a heat sink and appears to work quite well, apparently.
flyinghamster 6y ago
According to the article, it isn't a problem; the heat sink is big enough to not need a fan. Nice bonus that it's a slightly faster SoC. I have a Pi 4B with a heat sink and fan that's running BOINC 24x7 (yielding a RAC of about 750-775 on World Community Grid), and with the fan connected to 3.3V it runs at a comfortable 52-54°C with absolutely no throttling. I think I'm going to try overclocking it a bit and see how it handles it.
MivLives 6y ago
They pushed out a firmware update last year that apparently solves some of the heat issues. https://www.raspberrypi.org/blog/thermal-testing-raspberry-pi-4/ https://www.raspberrypi.org/blog/thermal-testing-raspberry-p...
geerlingguy 6y ago
It runs cooler than the Pi 4 model B, at a higher clock speed. The newer chip helps with that, in addition to the massive heat sink on top of it!

satysin 6y ago

Just watched a few videos on your channel and love it. Really great stuff. I love this Pi 400 and think in the new year I will pick one up for my son. We have a Pi 4 that we use a lot and he loves but like you say in your video it is a bit annoying with this little box off the side with a bunch of cables coming out of it. Not terrible by any means just annoying so I really love the form factor of it all being in the keyboard. I have thought for a while now they should do this kind of form factor or sell a simple RPi branded monitor with a Pi built in so I am happy to see they thought about it too. A keyboard is much more practical than a monitor of course so it is a far more sensible choice! Really hope this sells well and they continue with this kind of form factor in the future. Even a slightly bigger keyboard with a "forehead" (C64 vibes) would be excellent.

FerretFred 6y ago
>simple RPi branded monitor with a Pi built in Oh, I'd definitely be up for that!!
- m-p-3 6y ago
  And make it easy to upgrade or replace later on!
- curryst 6y ago
  You could probably DIY that with an RPi case pretty easy, using the VESA mount holes on the back of the monitor. Most of my monitors have two different size VESA mounts, and my monitor mounts use the smaller size, meaning I have 4 extra screw holes on the back of all my monitors, and conveniently nearly all the VESA mounts take standard M4 bolts. If your VESA mounts are close enough together, you can just drill holes directly in the RPi case and mount it to the back of the monitor. If they're too far apart, use the mounts to put in a plastic or wood bar, then drill holes through the RPi case and the bar (while not attached to the monitor), then mount the case to the bar and the bar to the monitor. I've looked at doing similar in the past, but I wanted to make the mounting block along the bottom of the monitor with the SD card exposed. That way I can set up a series of SD cards to test with. Want to test something on Ubuntu 18.04? Cool, switch monitor 2 to input 2 (the RPi) and then swap the SD card out to the Ubuntu 18.04 one and you're ready to rock. It's not as easy as a Docker container, but I'm often using the GPIO pins and I don't have the desire to try to make GPIO pins work in Docker. It might not even be that hard, I just don't feel like adding another step to my troubleshooting.

KaiserPro 6y ago

Excellent, I was looking for this sort of info. (side note, I love the ansible roles you've made, especially AWX, saved me a bunch of time back in 2018)

tyingq 6y ago

How is the keyboard? It looks, uh, cheap, so I'm curious if typing on it is an ok experience.

gh02t 6y ago
At least superficially it looks like it might be the same basic keyboard as the official Raspberry Pi keyboard that they already had. If so the experience is... not great but not horrible. It's not the worst chiclet keyboard I've used, I'd rate it as adequate. You would not want to use it as your primary keyboard all day, but that's also not what it's intended for.
timw4mail 6y ago
(This is assuming the existing keyboards are the same) Pretty decent scissor-switch, but one of mine squeaks when typing some.
numlock86 6y ago
The Pi Keyboard was decent. I would expect this to be the same just with the Pi integrated.
- geerlingguy 6y ago
  This is literally the exact same keyboard surface and mechanism as the Pi Keyboard, so it's good, not amazing. I can type fine on it, though I still prefer an Apple Magic Keyboard (latest version) for daily typing since the body of it is slightly more solid. I'm not a mechanical keyboard fan, though I know many would like that kind of keyboard here, and it would be more fitting for the nostalgia!
  - leoc 6y ago
    Some of the '80s home micros like the Sinclair ZX81 and ZX Spectrum and the Atari 400 had keyboards which were dire by modern standards, or in fact by contemporary standards. Even the "mechanical" keyboards with full travel tended to be disappointing https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KNa2UdagTGU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KNa2UdagTGU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sN8WHp_QmoE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sN8WHp_QmoE . In comparison the RPi 400's keyboard is probably well above the mean. Still we might see some third-party replacement cases with mechanical keyboards, like the ones which came out for the ZX81: https://k1.spdns.de/Vintage/Sinclair/80/Peripherals/Keyboards/dk%27tronics%20Keyboard/ https://k1.spdns.de/Vintage/Sinclair/80/Peripherals/Keyboard... https://k1.spdns.de/Vintage/Sinclair/80/Peripherals/Keyboards/dk%27tronics%20Keyboard/Keyboard.jpg https://k1.spdns.de/Vintage/Sinclair/80/Peripherals/Keyboard... .

prox 6y ago

Can you use the keyboard.... as a keyboard for other computers?

omk 6y ago
With a little bit of code, you should be able to pipe keyboard input to one of the USB ports.
- daemin 6y ago
  There's a project that did that but for a different purpose - a network KVM using a Pi4 - https://mtlynch.io/tinypilot/ https://mtlynch.io/tinypilot/ It had to use the one USB-C connector that's used for power for emulating the keyboard and mouse since that's the only one that supported USB-OTG. So you kind of either need PoE or another adapter to both power the device and be able to hae the Pi act as an input device.
sdenton4 6y ago
One of my main uses for random keyboards is hooking them onto a raspberry pi that needs some local debugging...
geerlingguy 6y ago
Yes, I think Gordon Hollingsworth from Raspberry Pi has posted somewhere specifically how to do it (maybe in the comments on the post on the Pi website?).
- prox 6y ago
  Found it! Merci :) >It would be possible to do this, but you’d have to run a simple buildroot SD card which runs a suitable dwc2 OTG HID driver to pretend it is a keyboard… Otherwise, you can use the Pi 400 as a Barrier server to the other computer… See my other blog post for details! Gordon
  - undersuit 6y ago
    Nice, it's probably using the USB gadget functionality. That probably means you could modify the image to access a bunch of the ports. Having the ability to turn my Pi Debugging Keyboard into a USB Ethernet adapter would have some advantages.

JKCalhoun 6y ago

Curious if you have any specs on the ribbon cable that connects the keyboard. It looks like it must carry more than USB?

Abishek_Muthian 6y ago

Hey Jeff, I recently bought the RPi Keyboard Hub (Pictured in OP and In parent blog) for its soft keys (Got bone issues), I was pleasantly surprised with the quality. I use Wacom Touch Tablet for trackpad along with a Steel series mouse in its Hub; But I'm worried about saturating the bandwidth as it's just USB 2.0 although I haven't found any conclusive issues. Have you tested the Keyboard hub's limits? Controller seems to be QinHeng Electronics USB-Serial.

pedroaraujo 6y ago

This is slightly disappointing, I was expecting it to be some kind of case for the the Compute Module (or at least for the RPi4. I don't know if it's unrealistic, but it would be nice to have some sort of upgrade or repair possibilities.

wtracy 6y ago
That seems to more or less already exist: https://shop.pimoroni.com/products/raspberry-pi-keyboard https://shop.pimoroni.com/products/raspberry-pi-keyboard
- undersuit 6y ago
  Sorry, that's just a keyboard with a USB hub.
dualboot 6y ago
I agree, I wish this was the case but it's still a compelling gift for my nieces and nephews and tickles my nostalgia for the era of computing that it mimics.

bakul 6y ago

Have you tried the coffee spilling test on it yet?

cpascal 6y ago

Just wanted to say that I've been watching your Pi videos on YouTube over the last few months and I really enjoy them. Your video about trying to get a GPU working with a Raspberry Pi was particularly fascinating. Keep up the great work.

908B64B197 6y ago

> Fun fact: the Pi 400 (and Compute Module 4) both have newer revisions of the BCM2711 SoC (C0 instead of B0), and that's part of the reason the clock speed is higher on the Pi 400 (1.8 GHz) than on the regular Pi 4 model B (1.5 GHz)—the newer revision apparently handles faster clocks and scaling with less heat than the older revision. Reading your article > the Pi 400 didn't overheat even when I was running it with an overclock to 2.147 GHz, the maximum it allows currently This only makes me wish they sold an 800 version with 8 GB of RAM, just like the Pi 4.

happycube 6y ago
... and a mechanical keyboard, to complete the possibly unintentional Atari reference. (Folklore says the original product plan had the Atari 400 come with 4K of RAM, and the 800 8K... and then memory got cheaper by release.)

kovek 6y ago

Thank you geerlingguy for your ansible repositories!!

ThePowerOfFuet 6y ago

Edit: It looks like they're affiliate links for monetization, so what I said doesn't apply in this case as they're not the usual tracking crap Amazon et al commonly add to their sharing links. --- You might want to replace the link to the plexiglass cutter to remove the tracking info (linking everyone who clicks it back to you); here's the smallest you can get it: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000BZZ1D0 https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000BZZ1D0 The same goes for your SD card links.