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As one who's never trusted my data to Google I really am curious why so many actually do so. Is the convenience truly that great that people are even prepared

As one who's never trusted my data to Google I really am curious why so many actually do so. Is the convenience truly that great that people are even prepared to gamble the loss of their data? Alternatively, why is it that some of us have always been mistrustful of Big Tech and most others not? They're completely opposite worldviews.

camillomiller 6y ago
It grows and compounds. I started using gmail an google a long time ago, when I was not enough of an expert and a big tech enthusiast. The Google cloud ecosystem has been ahead of its time for a long time. Now that alternatives are available and I understand the lock in risk, I am way too entrenched into the ecosystem to consider getting out as an easy and painless option.
harel 6y ago
Yes. The convenience is truly that great and the ratio of users to locked out users is large enough that I am prepared to gamble like that. We gamble all the time with any service we use or retailer we buy from.
- hilbert42 6y ago
  OK, that's fine. But as I said elsewhere you should always be entitled to get your data back if you are locked out and the law should guarantee that entitlement.
  - harel 6y ago
    Absolutely. If we bring the law into it, one should also know why they are being locked out and have a valid human-lead channel to contest it. I'm in no way condoning what's going on sometimes. It's terrible.
    - hilbert42 6y ago
      Fully agree. The law should also enforce an arbitration process onto Big Tech at it's expense (it can afford it as it's selling user's info). Moreover, those arbitrators ought to be independent of Big Tech.
jcynix 6y ago
> As one who's never trusted my data to Google I really am curious why so many actually do so. I expect that most users think on the same level as they do with metadata: "I have nothing to hide so can't be a possible target." And if an algorithm suddenly marks them as a target (for whatever I transparent reason) they do not understand that they might just be "collateral damage" … My IT world view was formed in the 90s when various proprietary file formats became more or less inaccessible due to "software obsolescence"). Which told me that only more or less plain text (mark-up is fine, as it is text too) will guarantee that I can access my data years later. People who started their live with Big Tech (so-called digital natives -- or is that naives? ;-) might have to learn this sooner or later.
- hilbert42 6y ago
  Right, having managed IT I understand the proprietary formats problem well. My two axioms are - use plaintext wherever possible, and second, before you commit to a new program always check its export features to ensue you don't get locked in.
goatinaboat 6y ago
I really am curious why so many actually do so There was a time, maybe up until 10 years ago, when Google was cool. Everyone wanted a GMail address, it started out as invite only, like Facebook. "Do no evil" was the motto. And they ramped it up slowly like boiling a frog. The evil, I mean. And here we are today.
- hilbert42 6y ago
  It would be interesting to know if that was the initial plan from the outset or that it evolved along the way.
  - sumtechguy 6y ago
    I think they started off at a good spot. Then realized they wanted more control of the data going through them. Then they realized they wanted to control the way the data flowed in an ideological way. It is a natural reaction to someone who gets a decent amount of wealth. They think 'how can I make the world a better place'. But the mistake many make is not realizing that their way is not the best way for others. Sometimes the best way is just to kick the actual trolls and just let everyone be they way they are. They are no longer satisfied with that. Doing what they are doing is going to 'dismantle' their people network. In 10 years people may be saying 'oh yeah remember google'. It can happen. At one point a lot of people were on AOL now it is a ghosttown of what it was.
    - hilbert42 6y ago
      Absolutely, with AOL the paradigm shifted and it couldn't change quickly enough. Google will likely predominate until another shift of similar magnitude occurs. Seems it's impossible to make predictions in this area with any certainty. Remember, Bill Gates was paranoid about this and about Microsoft getting caught out for similar reasons especially so around the time Windows 95 came out. Even so, MS missed the boat with search, smartphones and Android.
- RonanTheGrey 6y ago
  I remember when I first got my Gmail address, what... 18? 19? years ago. Google was hot shit and everyone was like "Well if Google makes it it's got to be good!" I don't think people actually believe that anymore they just feel they have no other alternative. Google had this wellspring of good will that they have simply burned over the last 10 years or so. It was developers who originally made Google what it was - first to search, first to Chrome. We can unmake it as well and I think it's about time we do.
eythian 6y ago
Most people don't see these articles, or know how to buy and manage their own domain. Most people want email that is easy enough to use and generally functional and stops them having to see spam. We're all in a bit of a bubble where we've seen enough to be wary, but most people haven't.
mlindner 6y ago
I switched to gmail in the early '00s when I was a kid after previously having an email on a friend's private server that he decided to take down. That was back when Google only offered POP email. That was back when Google was only an email service and search site. Luckily I was an Apple user however and haven't migrated my personal photos, data storage, and many other things to Google.
saalweachter 6y ago
The idea of losing all of my email access, etc, is terrifying, much like the idea of getting in a car accident, or getting cancer, or one of a million bad things that can happen to a person. But what are the actual odds that a bad thing is going to happen to me? 1.8 billion people are currently using GMail. If 1000 "real" (ie, not bots) accounts were closed every day for the next 80 years, there's a 98% chance that I (or any other individual user) would never have a problem. Obviously, if some number of people are having problems that's, well, a problem, but as an individual user I mostly assume that it's not going to happen to me, much like I largely don't think about the 1-in-103 chance that I'll die in a car accident.

camillomiller 6y ago

It grows and compounds. I started using gmail an google a long time ago, when I was not enough of an expert and a big tech enthusiast. The Google cloud ecosystem has been ahead of its time for a long time. Now that alternatives are available and I understand the lock in risk, I am way too entrenched into the ecosystem to consider getting out as an easy and painless option.

harel 6y ago

Yes. The convenience is truly that great and the ratio of users to locked out users is large enough that I am prepared to gamble like that. We gamble all the time with any service we use or retailer we buy from.

hilbert42 6y ago
OK, that's fine. But as I said elsewhere you should always be entitled to get your data back if you are locked out and the law should guarantee that entitlement.
- harel 6y ago
  Absolutely. If we bring the law into it, one should also know why they are being locked out and have a valid human-lead channel to contest it. I'm in no way condoning what's going on sometimes. It's terrible.
  - hilbert42 6y ago
    Fully agree. The law should also enforce an arbitration process onto Big Tech at it's expense (it can afford it as it's selling user's info). Moreover, those arbitrators ought to be independent of Big Tech.

jcynix 6y ago

> As one who's never trusted my data to Google I really am curious why so many actually do so. I expect that most users think on the same level as they do with metadata: "I have nothing to hide so can't be a possible target." And if an algorithm suddenly marks them as a target (for whatever I transparent reason) they do not understand that they might just be "collateral damage" … My IT world view was formed in the 90s when various proprietary file formats became more or less inaccessible due to "software obsolescence"). Which told me that only more or less plain text (mark-up is fine, as it is text too) will guarantee that I can access my data years later. People who started their live with Big Tech (so-called digital natives -- or is that naives? ;-) might have to learn this sooner or later.

hilbert42 6y ago
Right, having managed IT I understand the proprietary formats problem well. My two axioms are - use plaintext wherever possible, and second, before you commit to a new program always check its export features to ensue you don't get locked in.

goatinaboat 6y ago

I really am curious why so many actually do so There was a time, maybe up until 10 years ago, when Google was cool. Everyone wanted a GMail address, it started out as invite only, like Facebook. "Do no evil" was the motto. And they ramped it up slowly like boiling a frog. The evil, I mean. And here we are today.

hilbert42 6y ago
It would be interesting to know if that was the initial plan from the outset or that it evolved along the way.
- sumtechguy 6y ago
  I think they started off at a good spot. Then realized they wanted more control of the data going through them. Then they realized they wanted to control the way the data flowed in an ideological way. It is a natural reaction to someone who gets a decent amount of wealth. They think 'how can I make the world a better place'. But the mistake many make is not realizing that their way is not the best way for others. Sometimes the best way is just to kick the actual trolls and just let everyone be they way they are. They are no longer satisfied with that. Doing what they are doing is going to 'dismantle' their people network. In 10 years people may be saying 'oh yeah remember google'. It can happen. At one point a lot of people were on AOL now it is a ghosttown of what it was.
  - hilbert42 6y ago
    Absolutely, with AOL the paradigm shifted and it couldn't change quickly enough. Google will likely predominate until another shift of similar magnitude occurs. Seems it's impossible to make predictions in this area with any certainty. Remember, Bill Gates was paranoid about this and about Microsoft getting caught out for similar reasons especially so around the time Windows 95 came out. Even so, MS missed the boat with search, smartphones and Android.
RonanTheGrey 6y ago
I remember when I first got my Gmail address, what... 18? 19? years ago. Google was hot shit and everyone was like "Well if Google makes it it's got to be good!" I don't think people actually believe that anymore they just feel they have no other alternative. Google had this wellspring of good will that they have simply burned over the last 10 years or so. It was developers who originally made Google what it was - first to search, first to Chrome. We can unmake it as well and I think it's about time we do.

eythian 6y ago

Most people don't see these articles, or know how to buy and manage their own domain. Most people want email that is easy enough to use and generally functional and stops them having to see spam. We're all in a bit of a bubble where we've seen enough to be wary, but most people haven't.

mlindner 6y ago

I switched to gmail in the early '00s when I was a kid after previously having an email on a friend's private server that he decided to take down. That was back when Google only offered POP email. That was back when Google was only an email service and search site. Luckily I was an Apple user however and haven't migrated my personal photos, data storage, and many other things to Google.

saalweachter 6y ago

The idea of losing all of my email access, etc, is terrifying, much like the idea of getting in a car accident, or getting cancer, or one of a million bad things that can happen to a person. But what are the actual odds that a bad thing is going to happen to me? 1.8 billion people are currently using GMail. If 1000 "real" (ie, not bots) accounts were closed every day for the next 80 years, there's a 98% chance that I (or any other individual user) would never have a problem. Obviously, if some number of people are having problems that's, well, a problem, but as an individual user I mostly assume that it's not going to happen to me, much like I largely don't think about the 1-in-103 chance that I'll die in a car accident.