6 ms·

Welcome to vendor locked-in world where you have willing-fully decided to become prisoners in exchange for few sweets that you dont really need. I hope you don

by stiray 6y ago

Welcome to vendor locked-in world where you have willing-fully decided to become prisoners in exchange for few sweets that you dont really need. I hope you dont also own some google router or even better, "home security" device. This would make it a real pain. I am explaining this to people since the birth of gmail, but no one listens. Let me think for a moment, what would happen if google does this to me... [x] No google email (I have my own mail server - it is just a $90 motherboard with onboard cpu with disks) [x] Modified ROM, no google on android [x] No google cloud (Nextcloud is just fine, for virtualization I have bhyve. They are both just great) [x] No applications bought from google play (If application doesnt provide "off google" licensing, I am not buying it - voting with my money) [x] No content served by google (If I want to share video, I just upload it to my server. No annoyances about copyrights or anything else. It just works.) [x] No data whatsoever stored in google ecosystem (actually actively fighting against them storing any information about me) Hm, looks like - nothing?

WanderPanda 6y ago
Da rise of da preppers :D
SiVal 6y ago
For video off your own server, do you have a good streaming solution or is it a download?
- ajnin 6y ago
  HTML5 <video> tag works just fine if you want to put a video up somewhere.
  - mellow-lake-day 6y ago
    Not the person you are responding to but for the HTML5 video tag to work how does server have to be set up? What are you serving the video over? What protocol are you using? New to this so curious about your implementation.
    - mjochim 6y ago
      Not the person you were asking, but you can host it the same way you host the HTML file containing the <video> tag. Both files are served as static content by any web server you choose (eg nginx, Apache). You also get "streaming" for free because the browser will request the video file in portions instead of "the whole thing at the same time." Web servers support this out of the box.
    - dan1234 6y ago
      As long as you don't care about advanced features like adaptive streaming, you can serve a video in the same way you serve an image. https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/HTML/Element/video https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/HTML/Element/vi...
koonsolo 6y ago
Let me explain what happens when my house burns down, taking along all my hardware: - I buy another laptop and install Linux. - I connect my Google, Dropbox (which contains google backups) and Github, and they contain all data I own. - I buy a new smartphone and connect it to Google Simple as that. And my house doesn't need to burn down for this, when I buy a new laptop or smartphone I do the same. Plus, all my email, documents, source code is accessible from anywhere, for when I don't have my hardware with me but have access to another device. Everything has benefits and drawbacks, my approach definitely has drawbacks, but running your own server at home also has drawbacks.
- Semaphor 6y ago
  There’s no need for lock-in though. I have almost all those benefits without google, the only difference is, that I need to install TitaniumBackup first before I can restore everything on my phone. But unlike you, I don’t care if google locks me out.
  - eloisant 6y ago
    It's still more work and risk of messing it up than using a cloud service.
    - Semaphor 6y ago
      More work, yes. That’s pretty much the selling point of Google services: We can fuck you over, but you have less work if we don’t.
      - koonsolo 6y ago
        Unless you make a mistake of course, and then you fuck yourself over. Happened to me plenty of times already ;)
- eloisant 6y ago
  You can also benefit from the cloud while still avoid putting all your eggs in one basket. A few years ago I was happy to have all my life on Google because it's was so integrated, but recently because of (1) privacy issues are (2) risks of being banned arbitrarily, I decided to reduce my exposure to Google. So my email is Protonmail, my browser is Firefox and my search engine is Duckduckgo. I'm still looking for alternative for my calendar and files hosting. I might shell out a pro Dropbox account. What might be harder is Android and Play Services. I don't like the iPhone, and I don't want to bother with de-googlized custom ROMs either.
elramon 6y ago
> Welcome to vendor locked-in world where you have willing-fully decided to become prisoners in exchange for few sweets that you dont really need. This is one of the classic guys who has his own mail server. > No google email (I have my own mail server - it is just a $90 motherboard with onboard cpu with disks) I knew it
White_Wolf 6y ago
tbh not all people can run their own infrastructure (let alone manage/maintain it). I'm not sure about you but most non-techie people I know rely on online services to keep their data safe. some (maybe) have a USB drive to keep a copy. talking about the setup I'm a bit more flexible in some regards to save bandwidth Cloud/data storage/services XCP-NG + NextCloud + 3TB NAS (24/7) -local mail server+ Dynamic DNS on VPS (for mail - local sync)-online a few small VM's for various services-local Archiving/Backup: 40TB archive NAS for daily backups of all stuff that I keep online+offline including phones,tablets, etc Video/Audio content: local private copies + shared though youtube (as alternatives for content blocked on youtube I use RuTube or Youku) Edit: Forgot about the off-site backup (different country 40TB NAS as offsite mirror)
- nirui 6y ago
  I noticed a lots of people are doing this after they got a NAS. I think there is a business opportunity: NAS vendors can turn their NAS service to a platform that allows it's users to rent "apps" from the platform by paying a small amount of money every month or year. Most of the money goes to the app developers to support their development. When the developer updates the app, the NAS will then automatically download and apply the update. There is no vendor lock-in as long as the user has the root control of the NAS device (Or at least get their data out of the machine). If the user decided to switch to another NAS vendor, they can simply migrate the data to the new machine.
hnlmorg 6y ago
> I hope you dont also own some google router or even better, "home security" device. This would make it a real pain. I am explaining this to people since the birth of gmail, but no one listens. > Let me think for a moment, what would happen if google does this to me... > {lots of stuff that is impossible for the average person} If you're making the same comments to those who "don't listen" then I can see why. Honestly this comes off more as a gloat post than pragmatic suggestions. And this is coming from someone who used to run all of the above. The problem is, hosting your own email is actually really hard. Not only much harder to set up than it should be Particularly so considering how old the technology is -- you'd think there would be a GitLab-like solution that is a single package for all the components but no, the end user is left working out what MTA to select, then there is choices between the DB backend, user authentication, POP3 vs IMAP, and possible a web server and web site code itself (if you want web mail as well as POP / IMAP). And that's before you get as far as SSL, login attacks (eg fail2ban), spam protection, setting up your DNS records in the exact combination to protect yourself from being identified as spam and then finally creating your user accounts. And even after all of that, you're still likely to find that Google and Microsoft just assume you to be spam because you're not running on a known trusted service. It's ridiculously hard to get right and that's before you've concerned yourself with the weekly upkeep (security updates, application updates, back ups, etc). There's a reason a great many skilled sysadmins -- including myself -- have given up bothering to run their own mail server. It's easier to trust $COMPANY and make regular backups in case of emergency than it is to run the process in reverse. ...and that's just email. Running your own cloud is also problematic -- not as difficult as email but it is still a considerable hassle and still out of the question for the average Joe.
- GTP 6y ago
  About the first part of your post, actually there is a single package for all the components: mailu does that in the form of a set of docker images. I've also heard about iRedMail but I don't know it. For the rest of your comment you're right, after launching mailu you still have to configure the DNS and deal with some providers still thinking you're a spammer. But at least you can avoid the painful traditional setup which requires to install multiple pieces of software and configure them to make them talk each other, and mailu also helps you with DNS by telling you which value you should put to have dkim working (and maybe also something else that I'm not recalling right now). Personally the problem that stopped me from having my own mail server was the difficulty to have a reverse PTR record configured for your vps. I was trying to get it with an Oracle Cloud server, but after a rather time consuming process of trying to gather information about this, I found out that Oracle didn't offer the option to have a reverse PTR record.
jmnicolas 6y ago
I'm in the process of Degoogling my life so I have installed GrapheneOS on my phone and use FDroid as an app store. It works but I have the impression of living in the dark ages: - I had to ask my contacts to install Signal on their phones, some just didn't follow up (we were having long conversations on WhatsApp the week before), some don't even see my messages. I receive much less messages than before, I'm left out of the cool conversations happening in WhatsApp groups). - I thought Google's keyboard could use some improvements, but the AOSP one is much worse. - I can't use my banking app, and their mobile web app doesn't work with KeepassDX so I have to manually enter my account infos each time. - notifications are hit and miss. The reminder app that I found on FDroid didn't fire a reminder this morning. I had to get another Clock app, the AOSP one insisted to make an audible notification 1.5h before any alarm (it was silent on Google's). - email clients: FairEmail is good but lacks ergonomy.K-9 mail is a joke. (I like to separate my email accounts in separate clients). - the icons are ugly and I didn't find any way to change them. All in all I'm not exactly living the dream right now. I don't use social medias (except YouTube on my desktop where I can block ads) I think I would have a much harder time if I had to use web apps to connect to social medias.
- UncleSlacky 6y ago
  You don't have to stick with the AOSP keyboard, there are several alternatives in F-Droid. I'm currently using the Hacker's Keyboard: https://f-droid.org/en/packages/org.pocketworkstation.pckeyboard/ https://f-droid.org/en/packages/org.pocketworkstation.pckeyb... I wouldn't recommend doing banking on a phone anyway, although GrapheneOS should be fairly secure (and I'd use a browser, not an app).
  - jmnicolas 6y ago
    Thanks for the keyboard suggestion, I'm testing it right now. As for security I'm not sure my desktop is more secure than my phone! Anyway I'm more concerned by privacy than security.

by stiray 6y ago

WanderPanda 6y ago

Da rise of da preppers :D

SiVal 6y ago

For video off your own server, do you have a good streaming solution or is it a download?

ajnin 6y ago
HTML5 <video> tag works just fine if you want to put a video up somewhere.
- mellow-lake-day 6y ago
  Not the person you are responding to but for the HTML5 video tag to work how does server have to be set up? What are you serving the video over? What protocol are you using? New to this so curious about your implementation.
  - mjochim 6y ago
    Not the person you were asking, but you can host it the same way you host the HTML file containing the <video> tag. Both files are served as static content by any web server you choose (eg nginx, Apache). You also get "streaming" for free because the browser will request the video file in portions instead of "the whole thing at the same time." Web servers support this out of the box.
  - dan1234 6y ago
    As long as you don't care about advanced features like adaptive streaming, you can serve a video in the same way you serve an image. https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/HTML/Element/video https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/HTML/Element/vi...

koonsolo 6y ago

Let me explain what happens when my house burns down, taking along all my hardware: - I buy another laptop and install Linux. - I connect my Google, Dropbox (which contains google backups) and Github, and they contain all data I own. - I buy a new smartphone and connect it to Google Simple as that. And my house doesn't need to burn down for this, when I buy a new laptop or smartphone I do the same. Plus, all my email, documents, source code is accessible from anywhere, for when I don't have my hardware with me but have access to another device. Everything has benefits and drawbacks, my approach definitely has drawbacks, but running your own server at home also has drawbacks.

Semaphor 6y ago
There’s no need for lock-in though. I have almost all those benefits without google, the only difference is, that I need to install TitaniumBackup first before I can restore everything on my phone. But unlike you, I don’t care if google locks me out.
- eloisant 6y ago
  It's still more work and risk of messing it up than using a cloud service.
  - Semaphor 6y ago
    More work, yes. That’s pretty much the selling point of Google services: We can fuck you over, but you have less work if we don’t.
    - koonsolo 6y ago
      Unless you make a mistake of course, and then you fuck yourself over. Happened to me plenty of times already ;)
eloisant 6y ago
You can also benefit from the cloud while still avoid putting all your eggs in one basket. A few years ago I was happy to have all my life on Google because it's was so integrated, but recently because of (1) privacy issues are (2) risks of being banned arbitrarily, I decided to reduce my exposure to Google. So my email is Protonmail, my browser is Firefox and my search engine is Duckduckgo. I'm still looking for alternative for my calendar and files hosting. I might shell out a pro Dropbox account. What might be harder is Android and Play Services. I don't like the iPhone, and I don't want to bother with de-googlized custom ROMs either.

elramon 6y ago

> Welcome to vendor locked-in world where you have willing-fully decided to become prisoners in exchange for few sweets that you dont really need. This is one of the classic guys who has his own mail server. > No google email (I have my own mail server - it is just a $90 motherboard with onboard cpu with disks) I knew it

White_Wolf 6y ago

tbh not all people can run their own infrastructure (let alone manage/maintain it). I'm not sure about you but most non-techie people I know rely on online services to keep their data safe. some (maybe) have a USB drive to keep a copy. talking about the setup I'm a bit more flexible in some regards to save bandwidth Cloud/data storage/services XCP-NG + NextCloud + 3TB NAS (24/7) -local mail server+ Dynamic DNS on VPS (for mail - local sync)-online a few small VM's for various services-local Archiving/Backup: 40TB archive NAS for daily backups of all stuff that I keep online+offline including phones,tablets, etc Video/Audio content: local private copies + shared though youtube (as alternatives for content blocked on youtube I use RuTube or Youku) Edit: Forgot about the off-site backup (different country 40TB NAS as offsite mirror)

nirui 6y ago
I noticed a lots of people are doing this after they got a NAS. I think there is a business opportunity: NAS vendors can turn their NAS service to a platform that allows it's users to rent "apps" from the platform by paying a small amount of money every month or year. Most of the money goes to the app developers to support their development. When the developer updates the app, the NAS will then automatically download and apply the update. There is no vendor lock-in as long as the user has the root control of the NAS device (Or at least get their data out of the machine). If the user decided to switch to another NAS vendor, they can simply migrate the data to the new machine.

hnlmorg 6y ago

> I hope you dont also own some google router or even better, "home security" device. This would make it a real pain. I am explaining this to people since the birth of gmail, but no one listens. > Let me think for a moment, what would happen if google does this to me... > {lots of stuff that is impossible for the average person} If you're making the same comments to those who "don't listen" then I can see why. Honestly this comes off more as a gloat post than pragmatic suggestions. And this is coming from someone who used to run all of the above. The problem is, hosting your own email is actually really hard. Not only much harder to set up than it should be Particularly so considering how old the technology is -- you'd think there would be a GitLab-like solution that is a single package for all the components but no, the end user is left working out what MTA to select, then there is choices between the DB backend, user authentication, POP3 vs IMAP, and possible a web server and web site code itself (if you want web mail as well as POP / IMAP). And that's before you get as far as SSL, login attacks (eg fail2ban), spam protection, setting up your DNS records in the exact combination to protect yourself from being identified as spam and then finally creating your user accounts. And even after all of that, you're still likely to find that Google and Microsoft just assume you to be spam because you're not running on a known trusted service. It's ridiculously hard to get right and that's before you've concerned yourself with the weekly upkeep (security updates, application updates, back ups, etc). There's a reason a great many skilled sysadmins -- including myself -- have given up bothering to run their own mail server. It's easier to trust $COMPANY and make regular backups in case of emergency than it is to run the process in reverse. ...and that's just email. Running your own cloud is also problematic -- not as difficult as email but it is still a considerable hassle and still out of the question for the average Joe.

GTP 6y ago
About the first part of your post, actually there is a single package for all the components: mailu does that in the form of a set of docker images. I've also heard about iRedMail but I don't know it. For the rest of your comment you're right, after launching mailu you still have to configure the DNS and deal with some providers still thinking you're a spammer. But at least you can avoid the painful traditional setup which requires to install multiple pieces of software and configure them to make them talk each other, and mailu also helps you with DNS by telling you which value you should put to have dkim working (and maybe also something else that I'm not recalling right now). Personally the problem that stopped me from having my own mail server was the difficulty to have a reverse PTR record configured for your vps. I was trying to get it with an Oracle Cloud server, but after a rather time consuming process of trying to gather information about this, I found out that Oracle didn't offer the option to have a reverse PTR record.

jmnicolas 6y ago

I'm in the process of Degoogling my life so I have installed GrapheneOS on my phone and use FDroid as an app store. It works but I have the impression of living in the dark ages: - I had to ask my contacts to install Signal on their phones, some just didn't follow up (we were having long conversations on WhatsApp the week before), some don't even see my messages. I receive much less messages than before, I'm left out of the cool conversations happening in WhatsApp groups). - I thought Google's keyboard could use some improvements, but the AOSP one is much worse. - I can't use my banking app, and their mobile web app doesn't work with KeepassDX so I have to manually enter my account infos each time. - notifications are hit and miss. The reminder app that I found on FDroid didn't fire a reminder this morning. I had to get another Clock app, the AOSP one insisted to make an audible notification 1.5h before any alarm (it was silent on Google's). - email clients: FairEmail is good but lacks ergonomy.K-9 mail is a joke. (I like to separate my email accounts in separate clients). - the icons are ugly and I didn't find any way to change them. All in all I'm not exactly living the dream right now. I don't use social medias (except YouTube on my desktop where I can block ads) I think I would have a much harder time if I had to use web apps to connect to social medias.

UncleSlacky 6y ago
You don't have to stick with the AOSP keyboard, there are several alternatives in F-Droid. I'm currently using the Hacker's Keyboard: https://f-droid.org/en/packages/org.pocketworkstation.pckeyboard/ https://f-droid.org/en/packages/org.pocketworkstation.pckeyb... I wouldn't recommend doing banking on a phone anyway, although GrapheneOS should be fairly secure (and I'd use a browser, not an app).
- jmnicolas 6y ago
  Thanks for the keyboard suggestion, I'm testing it right now. As for security I'm not sure my desktop is more secure than my phone! Anyway I'm more concerned by privacy than security.