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> Given the political situation in certain places in Asia, a device that either communicates securely or doesn't communicate at all, with no grey area inbetween

by jfim 6y ago

> Given the political situation in certain places in Asia, a device that either communicates securely or doesn't communicate at all, with no grey area inbetween, is more than a geeky obsession. It's a tool. If one is worried about nation state actors, the ownership of a device that's secure and uncommon enough is likely to attract additional scrutiny or just be seized, legally or not. It's a pretty cool device, mind you. The fact that they're going out of their way to make sure the device is fully inspectable and trustable is pretty impressive, as you point out. It's just not very usable as a privacy tool in a hostile environment due to it being rather conspicuous.

schoen 6y ago
> If one is worried about nation state actors, the ownership of a device that's secure and uncommon enough is likely to attract additional scrutiny or just be seized, legally or not. The distinction between "tamper evidence" and "tamper resistance" seems to provide a good analogy here. Without secure devices, a state can spy on you in a clandestine way. With secure devices, a state can spy on you in a more overt way. You might still care about making the tampering evident! ("can" here probably means "can somewhat easily")
- jfim 6y ago
  That's true, but the more overt way would be seizure of the equipment, imprisonment, or worse. It's not unlike the XKCD about encryption vs a $5 wrench [0]. That being said, I'd love to have a reasonably modern device that's auditable and has enough functionality (email, calendar, web browser, GPS, VPN, phone, SMS) to be both useful and respectful of the user (eg. dark patterns to send location data to Google). I love the form factor of the Precursor and the fact that it has a keyboard on it. If it allowed me to ditch the Android phone with a less distracting alternative, that would be amazing. It's definitely not there yet, since I don't think they have started doing that much work on the software side of things, but definitely something to keep a look at. [0] https://xkcd.com/538/ https://xkcd.com/538/
  - justinclift 6y ago
    > If it allowed me to ditch the Android phone with a less distracting alternative ... The PinePhone seems to be coming along decently these days. Maybe that's a workable alternative?
  - nullc 6y ago
    > That's true, but the more overt way would be seizure of the equipment, imprisonment, or worse. And for some people for some causes those risks, including "worse", might be worth it. Besides, if you're the sort of person who might be the target of "worse" you're probably going to have a hard time regardless of if the oppressive power gets into your device. ... but maybe the security protects some of your friends from befalling the same fate. As far as seizure goes-- it has an accelerometer in it: "Zeroize on throw" is probably implementable. Alternatively, time-lock where if the device is moved from its hiding spot at the wrong time of day or without the right gestures it get wiped.

by jfim 6y ago

schoen 6y ago

> If one is worried about nation state actors, the ownership of a device that's secure and uncommon enough is likely to attract additional scrutiny or just be seized, legally or not. The distinction between "tamper evidence" and "tamper resistance" seems to provide a good analogy here. Without secure devices, a state can spy on you in a clandestine way. With secure devices, a state can spy on you in a more overt way. You might still care about making the tampering evident! ("can" here probably means "can somewhat easily")

jfim 6y ago
That's true, but the more overt way would be seizure of the equipment, imprisonment, or worse. It's not unlike the XKCD about encryption vs a $5 wrench [0]. That being said, I'd love to have a reasonably modern device that's auditable and has enough functionality (email, calendar, web browser, GPS, VPN, phone, SMS) to be both useful and respectful of the user (eg. dark patterns to send location data to Google). I love the form factor of the Precursor and the fact that it has a keyboard on it. If it allowed me to ditch the Android phone with a less distracting alternative, that would be amazing. It's definitely not there yet, since I don't think they have started doing that much work on the software side of things, but definitely something to keep a look at. [0] https://xkcd.com/538/ https://xkcd.com/538/
- justinclift 6y ago
  > If it allowed me to ditch the Android phone with a less distracting alternative ... The PinePhone seems to be coming along decently these days. Maybe that's a workable alternative?
- nullc 6y ago
  > That's true, but the more overt way would be seizure of the equipment, imprisonment, or worse. And for some people for some causes those risks, including "worse", might be worth it. Besides, if you're the sort of person who might be the target of "worse" you're probably going to have a hard time regardless of if the oppressive power gets into your device. ... but maybe the security protects some of your friends from befalling the same fate. As far as seizure goes-- it has an accelerometer in it: "Zeroize on throw" is probably implementable. Alternatively, time-lock where if the device is moved from its hiding spot at the wrong time of day or without the right gestures it get wiped.