5 ms·

Thank you Pine64 for this! Reparable electronic devices are one of the few levers that can have a huge impact to create a sustainable future. Obviously it wil

Thank you Pine64 for this! Reparable electronic devices are one of the few levers that can have a huge impact to create a sustainable future. Obviously it will require to rethink our economies, like reducing the taxes on labor to enable small repair shops to bloom everywhere. Linux + a reparable device is the only way to stop e-waste!

CivBase 6y ago
How does Linux stop e-waste?
- sylvain_kerkour 6y ago
  Lifelong updates (unlike Android or iOS) + ability to run the latest distributions on 10+ years old devices.
- marcodiego 6y ago
  By being the most popular FLOSS OS kernel available, you can be confident that it will be supported for a long time on a multitude of devices independently of manufacturer, provider or vendor. Mainly freedom from planned or non-intentional obsolescence.
- redvenom 6y ago
  I have an old Macbook Pro 2011. It stopped receiving updates from Apple. I actually did try installing the patched Catalina...but it is practically unusable due to system requirements. Installed Linux Mint 18 XFCE a while ago and recently upgraded to 20. Now it runs really well: I can watch YouTube, run VS Code, compile stuff, do some basic statistical analyses, etc. If it weren't for Linux, this machine would end up as waste and I would have to buy something new.
  - TaylorAlexander 6y ago
    I have a 2011 MBP too (mid year refresh). How was the install? I have already installed Linux on it but it required some tricky GRUB editing to get graphics working at all, and now I’m afraid to update it due to the trouble that was. Did you have to do any of that? Im curious if support has improved. Thanks!
    - redvenom 6y ago
      It was no trouble at all. Everything worked. With Mint 20 I did have to revert the touchpad driver to synaptics (just do sudo apt-get install xserver-xorg-input-synaptics), because the new driver does not work very well. The first time I did a clean install and the second I did a dual boot with Catalina (just for fun, Catalina runs like molasses). So I definitely encourage you to try with Mint.
      - TaylorAlexander 6y ago
        Good tip, thank you!!
- megous 6y ago
  I can still run 17 year old ibm t41 with the current debian. But maybe it would run (walk?) windows 10 too, I haven't tried. I doubt so, though. :)
- squarefoot 6y ago
  Not just Linux, being free and open in general help immensely to reduce e-waste. Just think of how many old cellphones that don't receive updates anymore could become media players, portable terminals, IoT consoles, instrumentation interfaces, retrogaming consoles, in-vehicle dash screens, etc. if only the manufacturers released the information necessary to install much faster and open operating systems and write device divers for them. Each one of these old phones recycled that way would be one less phone thrown away. The Pine 64 isn't anything special hardware wise, actually it's way inferior to most popular phones (but runs much more optimized software, and no preinstalled junkware), however, being able to customize it to the point one day I could give it new life by buying say a faster mainboard instead of a complete cellphone then ditching the old one in a landfill, makes a killer argument in favor of Open Source software and hardware.
  - zepto 6y ago
    I’m fully in support of open hardware, and I’d support legislation to make unlocking mandatory. However, I’m much less optimistic about the use cases you list: “media players, portable terminals, IoT consoles, instrumentation interfaces, retrogaming consoles, in-vehicle dash screens” As far as I can see, there is essentially zero demand for any of these beyond hobbyists, since they can all be done much better by one’s current phone. For me, the big reason for open hardware is that Android and iOS are nowhere near meeting the potential for what personal computing could be and we need the freedom to develop alternatives.
  - Mediterraneo10 6y ago
    > actually it's way inferior to most popular phones (but runs much more optimized software This isn’t really true. The only general-purpose interface for the PinePhone with any future to it (since UBPorts is based on decaying 2014-era software that even Ubuntu has abandoned) is Phosh, which has not yet been optimized. So much of Phosh’s tech depends on upstream GNOME packages whose devs aren’t terribly interested in optimizing for slower devices. Also, a modern smartphone relies on a ton of battery optimizations to be reliable for everyday use, and that work has barely started on the PinePhone.
- an_opabinia 6y ago
  Ironically, as the operating system of choice for most phones and smart appliances, all of which go obsolete faster than purpose-built firmware devices, Linux appears in e-waste more than any other freely distributed code. Which is to say this problem has nothing to do with licenses or repairability.
Proven 6y ago
That's funny. Lower taxes for you and presumably higher for somebody else so that you can go about fixing your phone... Has it occurred it you that this may be why Apple and others have not built their phones that way? Sustainability: my iPhones go on for years without any repairs. How can you beat that? By using a 5 year old CPU that was slow on Day 1? (I'm talking about the Pine Phone CPU). Sustain that.
jessaustin 6y ago
...reducing the taxes on labor... It does seem that taxing wealth directly rather than distortion-prone measures like income or capital gains could be the best response to the increasingly "gilded" age we're enduring.
- suprfnk 6y ago
  How do you measure "wealth"?
  - sargun 6y ago
    Capital assets held for more than some period, say a year.
  - 8bitsrule 6y ago
    Cars, #'homes', yachts ...
- kortilla 6y ago
  Is this an alternative to income tax in all brackets? If so, doesn’t this discourage things like home ownership and saving for retirement?
  - athriren 6y ago
    presumably it would be a marginal wealth tax that only took effect at some certain socially agreed upon threshold, past which you are determined to have “made it” (and this works with wealth in a way it does not for income, since your debts will be outweighed significantly by your assets while this could potentially not be true for someone with a high salary).
hddherman 6y ago
Repair shops can only bloom if the devices requiring repair can actually be repaired. If that does not happen, then repair will still be prohibitively difficult and expensive. Enforcing right to repair will probably end up with such a bloom, and I would happily welcome that.
nrp 6y ago
Making devices more repairable also has interesting ways of connecting into the informal economy. If only inexpensive hand tools are required, an individual can set up shop to serve their neighborhood with basically no initial capital.

CivBase 6y ago

How does Linux stop e-waste?

sylvain_kerkour 6y ago
Lifelong updates (unlike Android or iOS) + ability to run the latest distributions on 10+ years old devices.
marcodiego 6y ago
By being the most popular FLOSS OS kernel available, you can be confident that it will be supported for a long time on a multitude of devices independently of manufacturer, provider or vendor. Mainly freedom from planned or non-intentional obsolescence.
redvenom 6y ago
I have an old Macbook Pro 2011. It stopped receiving updates from Apple. I actually did try installing the patched Catalina...but it is practically unusable due to system requirements. Installed Linux Mint 18 XFCE a while ago and recently upgraded to 20. Now it runs really well: I can watch YouTube, run VS Code, compile stuff, do some basic statistical analyses, etc. If it weren't for Linux, this machine would end up as waste and I would have to buy something new.
- TaylorAlexander 6y ago
  I have a 2011 MBP too (mid year refresh). How was the install? I have already installed Linux on it but it required some tricky GRUB editing to get graphics working at all, and now I’m afraid to update it due to the trouble that was. Did you have to do any of that? Im curious if support has improved. Thanks!
  - redvenom 6y ago
    It was no trouble at all. Everything worked. With Mint 20 I did have to revert the touchpad driver to synaptics (just do sudo apt-get install xserver-xorg-input-synaptics), because the new driver does not work very well. The first time I did a clean install and the second I did a dual boot with Catalina (just for fun, Catalina runs like molasses). So I definitely encourage you to try with Mint.
    - TaylorAlexander 6y ago
      Good tip, thank you!!
megous 6y ago
I can still run 17 year old ibm t41 with the current debian. But maybe it would run (walk?) windows 10 too, I haven't tried. I doubt so, though. :)
squarefoot 6y ago
Not just Linux, being free and open in general help immensely to reduce e-waste. Just think of how many old cellphones that don't receive updates anymore could become media players, portable terminals, IoT consoles, instrumentation interfaces, retrogaming consoles, in-vehicle dash screens, etc. if only the manufacturers released the information necessary to install much faster and open operating systems and write device divers for them. Each one of these old phones recycled that way would be one less phone thrown away. The Pine 64 isn't anything special hardware wise, actually it's way inferior to most popular phones (but runs much more optimized software, and no preinstalled junkware), however, being able to customize it to the point one day I could give it new life by buying say a faster mainboard instead of a complete cellphone then ditching the old one in a landfill, makes a killer argument in favor of Open Source software and hardware.
- zepto 6y ago
  I’m fully in support of open hardware, and I’d support legislation to make unlocking mandatory. However, I’m much less optimistic about the use cases you list: “media players, portable terminals, IoT consoles, instrumentation interfaces, retrogaming consoles, in-vehicle dash screens” As far as I can see, there is essentially zero demand for any of these beyond hobbyists, since they can all be done much better by one’s current phone. For me, the big reason for open hardware is that Android and iOS are nowhere near meeting the potential for what personal computing could be and we need the freedom to develop alternatives.
- Mediterraneo10 6y ago
  > actually it's way inferior to most popular phones (but runs much more optimized software This isn’t really true. The only general-purpose interface for the PinePhone with any future to it (since UBPorts is based on decaying 2014-era software that even Ubuntu has abandoned) is Phosh, which has not yet been optimized. So much of Phosh’s tech depends on upstream GNOME packages whose devs aren’t terribly interested in optimizing for slower devices. Also, a modern smartphone relies on a ton of battery optimizations to be reliable for everyday use, and that work has barely started on the PinePhone.
an_opabinia 6y ago
Ironically, as the operating system of choice for most phones and smart appliances, all of which go obsolete faster than purpose-built firmware devices, Linux appears in e-waste more than any other freely distributed code. Which is to say this problem has nothing to do with licenses or repairability.

Proven 6y ago

That's funny. Lower taxes for you and presumably higher for somebody else so that you can go about fixing your phone... Has it occurred it you that this may be why Apple and others have not built their phones that way? Sustainability: my iPhones go on for years without any repairs. How can you beat that? By using a 5 year old CPU that was slow on Day 1? (I'm talking about the Pine Phone CPU). Sustain that.

jessaustin 6y ago

...reducing the taxes on labor... It does seem that taxing wealth directly rather than distortion-prone measures like income or capital gains could be the best response to the increasingly "gilded" age we're enduring.

suprfnk 6y ago
How do you measure "wealth"?
- sargun 6y ago
  Capital assets held for more than some period, say a year.
- 8bitsrule 6y ago
  Cars, #'homes', yachts ...
kortilla 6y ago
Is this an alternative to income tax in all brackets? If so, doesn’t this discourage things like home ownership and saving for retirement?
- athriren 6y ago
  presumably it would be a marginal wealth tax that only took effect at some certain socially agreed upon threshold, past which you are determined to have “made it” (and this works with wealth in a way it does not for income, since your debts will be outweighed significantly by your assets while this could potentially not be true for someone with a high salary).

hddherman 6y ago

Repair shops can only bloom if the devices requiring repair can actually be repaired. If that does not happen, then repair will still be prohibitively difficult and expensive. Enforcing right to repair will probably end up with such a bloom, and I would happily welcome that.

nrp 6y ago

Making devices more repairable also has interesting ways of connecting into the informal economy. If only inexpensive hand tools are required, an individual can set up shop to serve their neighborhood with basically no initial capital.