4 ms·

I applaud your ability to keep politics out of work. We created a hard rule at our company in 2016: No politics / No religion. Most humans are incapable of di

I applaud your ability to keep politics out of work. We created a hard rule at our company in 2016: No politics / No religion. Most humans are incapable of discussing these topics rationally, and it only serves to increase division at work. One person could not handle the idea of not being politically active at work, and we discovered after she quit that almost everyone was happier no having her toxic commentary omnipresent. In the best case scenario, folks like this are a big distraction - at worst they are a source for litigation, security issues, and horrible employee productivity. People who want to be politically active at work are absolute poison to creating a healthy cooperative team environment. You're doing the right thing, and if everyone else's constant hammering of politics at work is creating a bad environment for you, it's probably doing the same for others. You may want to anonymously suggest to the higher-ups that a similar rule should be implemented. Everyone will be happier.

chromatin 6y ago
Great comment. In fact even years ago before the current environment it was my rule to leave politics and religion out of the workplace and really focus on work. You are absolutely right that most humans cannot have a rational discussion without investing their emotions. However what’s new(?), and tragic, is (a) omnipresent social media and/or digital footprint and (b) that discourse outside work with coworker friends — at least for me but I suspect for many of those of us working 80+ hours, our social circle is largely coworkers or industry colleagues — could massively negatively affect career. The current environment likely leads to a sense of isolation , ironically likely shared by the /majority/ of people.
mlthoughts2018 6y ago
Your comment belies pretty repressive, judgmental, arrogant and close-minded attributes on your part. This attitude reminds me of the military’s “don’t ask, don’t tell” repression policy against gay service members. People should feel they don’t have to unnaturally switch off core important parts of their identity at work. They need to have psychological safety to outwardly “be themselves” - without burden to exert extra effort to unnaturally be different. If you want to talk about severe extremes like preventing hate speech at work or not being allowed to practice nudism in the office, then fine, there’s worthwhile discussion of limits. But if you want to say “no religion” and “no politics” just because you personally have the extreme arrogance to say “most humans” can’t discuss those topics rationally, then you personally are just an authoritarian thug - and this comes through strongly with the pejorative way you write about religious people, political people and what you personally deem to be “toxic.” It is far more likely that you are the toxic element, hoping to repress aspects of employee culture for self-serving reasons that change the workplace into an environment you personally prefer at the expense of basic humanity and inclusiveness for others.
- another_sock 6y ago
  Most humans can't discuss those topics rationally. It's not arrogant to say this, it's just basic truth. Throughout history, work hasn't been a social club, because everybody has a different preferred social environment and if you add in a social club then the thing people are getting paid for (work) is much harder to focus on. Your comment itself shows how passionate you are about political or social issues, which is fine for you if that is how you wish to proceed in life, but work is not the place for the emotionalism that is paired with passion for 99% of people. Left wing, right wing, authoritarian, libertarian, liberal, communist, fascist, etc doesn't matter, work is best done separated by those can put aside those motivations while working and focus on whatever it is they're being paid to work on.
  - mlthoughts2018 6y ago
    > “ Most humans can't discuss those topics rationally. It's not arrogant to say this, it's just basic truth.” No, this is a deeply arrogant and harmful thing to say. When it comes to beliefs, nearly anything that tries to generalize to “most humans” is at best arrogant ignorance and at worst actively repressive.
    - another_sock 6y ago
      Trying to redefine work from something it has been for all of human history (a place where you do work) into some sort of personal self expression is what is arrogant and harmful. Things are the way they are for reasons. Don't remove a fence until you know why it's there, and we know why the fence of no politics or religion is there (most humans aren't good at compartmentalizing their personal feelings on subjective social issues once those personal feelings are out in the open in an environment where you aren't around people who all share your personal feelings)
      - mlthoughts2018 6y ago
        No, you are very wrong here. Societal progress has tended to move away from repressing personal identity in the workplace. Just a generation ago this conversation would have been about whether gay people are allowed to be open about their sexual orientation or if they should just not allow any expression of their sexual identity to be present at work. Lots of people would respond with extreme homophobic comparisons like saying, “but I don’t bring my heterosexual identity to the workplace” and there would be comparisons with the military “don’t ask, don’t tell” policy. As a society we’ve mostly progressed past that bigoted point of view, but now we face similar battles about trans people being able to just be themselves and let their natural identity exist in the workplace. It is similar with many aspects of religious identity or political identity. Inclusiveness does not mean “we all equally avoid any reference to unique identity” rather it means “unique identity is encouraged and allowed to openly flourish.” This attitude you express: > “ Trying to redefine work from something it has been for all of human history (a place where you do work) into some sort of personal self expression is what is arrogant and harmful.” is repressive and frankly anti-human. “Why can’t we just go back to the good old days when all the snowflakes would just shut up and do their jobs” - that is 100% not hyperbole - that is literally the level of regressive attitude you are endorsing under the disingenuous guise of “workplace professionalism.”
EForEndeavour 6y ago
How would your company have dealt with a "Trump/Pence 2016" laptop sticker? What about a request to get time off to vote? What if someone came to HR and said they felt they were being treated differently by their boss because they posted a news article that mentioned politics and religion in the team's Slack channel, and they think their boss considered that a sneaky attempt to circumvent your strict "no politics / no religion" rule? Politics are inextricable from most plausible modern workplaces. I'm all for asking employees to try to avoid bringing it up if they can help it, but a "no politics / no religion" rule doesn't guarantee a reduction in "litigation, security issues, and horrible employee productivity."
- Volundr 6y ago
  Not the OP but: > How would your company have dealt with a "Trump/Pence 2016" laptop sticker? Presumably this would fall under the no politics rule. Remove it. It's a work laptop anyway. >What about a request to get time off to vote? Non-issue. Leaving to vote is not bringing your politics to work. > What if someone came to HR and said they felt they were being treated differently by their boss because they posted a news article that mentioned politics and religion in the team's Slack channel, and they think their boss considered that a sneaky attempt to circumvent your strict "no politics / no religion" rule? Nothing sneaky about it, posting in the teams Slack work be a clear violation of the rule. It's a work Slack channel.
  - Simulacra 6y ago
    You also have a legal right to take time off to go vote.
- koheripbal 6y ago
  I have a feeling that most people offended by a tiny laptop sticker (regardless of which party) are exactly the kinds of employees we wouldn't want to have. If people are focusing on work, these little things go unnoticed. What's great about it is that it's engendered a culture of eye-rolling to people who try to interject their religion or politics, and this has become somewhat self-perpetuating. If someone spammed a political article into a common venue (we don't use slack because it's such a waste of time), then I doubt it would get reported - just ignored. > Politics are inextricable from most plausible modern workplaces. I don't see how you could logically make this argument. Our business plan and financial goals have zero to do with the current political landscape.

chromatin 6y ago

Great comment. In fact even years ago before the current environment it was my rule to leave politics and religion out of the workplace and really focus on work. You are absolutely right that most humans cannot have a rational discussion without investing their emotions. However what’s new(?), and tragic, is (a) omnipresent social media and/or digital footprint and (b) that discourse outside work with coworker friends — at least for me but I suspect for many of those of us working 80+ hours, our social circle is largely coworkers or industry colleagues — could massively negatively affect career. The current environment likely leads to a sense of isolation , ironically likely shared by the /majority/ of people.

mlthoughts2018 6y ago

Your comment belies pretty repressive, judgmental, arrogant and close-minded attributes on your part. This attitude reminds me of the military’s “don’t ask, don’t tell” repression policy against gay service members. People should feel they don’t have to unnaturally switch off core important parts of their identity at work. They need to have psychological safety to outwardly “be themselves” - without burden to exert extra effort to unnaturally be different. If you want to talk about severe extremes like preventing hate speech at work or not being allowed to practice nudism in the office, then fine, there’s worthwhile discussion of limits. But if you want to say “no religion” and “no politics” just because you personally have the extreme arrogance to say “most humans” can’t discuss those topics rationally, then you personally are just an authoritarian thug - and this comes through strongly with the pejorative way you write about religious people, political people and what you personally deem to be “toxic.” It is far more likely that you are the toxic element, hoping to repress aspects of employee culture for self-serving reasons that change the workplace into an environment you personally prefer at the expense of basic humanity and inclusiveness for others.

another_sock 6y ago
Most humans can't discuss those topics rationally. It's not arrogant to say this, it's just basic truth. Throughout history, work hasn't been a social club, because everybody has a different preferred social environment and if you add in a social club then the thing people are getting paid for (work) is much harder to focus on. Your comment itself shows how passionate you are about political or social issues, which is fine for you if that is how you wish to proceed in life, but work is not the place for the emotionalism that is paired with passion for 99% of people. Left wing, right wing, authoritarian, libertarian, liberal, communist, fascist, etc doesn't matter, work is best done separated by those can put aside those motivations while working and focus on whatever it is they're being paid to work on.
- mlthoughts2018 6y ago
  > “ Most humans can't discuss those topics rationally. It's not arrogant to say this, it's just basic truth.” No, this is a deeply arrogant and harmful thing to say. When it comes to beliefs, nearly anything that tries to generalize to “most humans” is at best arrogant ignorance and at worst actively repressive.
  - another_sock 6y ago
    Trying to redefine work from something it has been for all of human history (a place where you do work) into some sort of personal self expression is what is arrogant and harmful. Things are the way they are for reasons. Don't remove a fence until you know why it's there, and we know why the fence of no politics or religion is there (most humans aren't good at compartmentalizing their personal feelings on subjective social issues once those personal feelings are out in the open in an environment where you aren't around people who all share your personal feelings)
    - mlthoughts2018 6y ago
      No, you are very wrong here. Societal progress has tended to move away from repressing personal identity in the workplace. Just a generation ago this conversation would have been about whether gay people are allowed to be open about their sexual orientation or if they should just not allow any expression of their sexual identity to be present at work. Lots of people would respond with extreme homophobic comparisons like saying, “but I don’t bring my heterosexual identity to the workplace” and there would be comparisons with the military “don’t ask, don’t tell” policy. As a society we’ve mostly progressed past that bigoted point of view, but now we face similar battles about trans people being able to just be themselves and let their natural identity exist in the workplace. It is similar with many aspects of religious identity or political identity. Inclusiveness does not mean “we all equally avoid any reference to unique identity” rather it means “unique identity is encouraged and allowed to openly flourish.” This attitude you express: > “ Trying to redefine work from something it has been for all of human history (a place where you do work) into some sort of personal self expression is what is arrogant and harmful.” is repressive and frankly anti-human. “Why can’t we just go back to the good old days when all the snowflakes would just shut up and do their jobs” - that is 100% not hyperbole - that is literally the level of regressive attitude you are endorsing under the disingenuous guise of “workplace professionalism.”

EForEndeavour 6y ago

How would your company have dealt with a "Trump/Pence 2016" laptop sticker? What about a request to get time off to vote? What if someone came to HR and said they felt they were being treated differently by their boss because they posted a news article that mentioned politics and religion in the team's Slack channel, and they think their boss considered that a sneaky attempt to circumvent your strict "no politics / no religion" rule? Politics are inextricable from most plausible modern workplaces. I'm all for asking employees to try to avoid bringing it up if they can help it, but a "no politics / no religion" rule doesn't guarantee a reduction in "litigation, security issues, and horrible employee productivity."

Volundr 6y ago
Not the OP but: > How would your company have dealt with a "Trump/Pence 2016" laptop sticker? Presumably this would fall under the no politics rule. Remove it. It's a work laptop anyway. >What about a request to get time off to vote? Non-issue. Leaving to vote is not bringing your politics to work. > What if someone came to HR and said they felt they were being treated differently by their boss because they posted a news article that mentioned politics and religion in the team's Slack channel, and they think their boss considered that a sneaky attempt to circumvent your strict "no politics / no religion" rule? Nothing sneaky about it, posting in the teams Slack work be a clear violation of the rule. It's a work Slack channel.
- Simulacra 6y ago
  You also have a legal right to take time off to go vote.
koheripbal 6y ago
I have a feeling that most people offended by a tiny laptop sticker (regardless of which party) are exactly the kinds of employees we wouldn't want to have. If people are focusing on work, these little things go unnoticed. What's great about it is that it's engendered a culture of eye-rolling to people who try to interject their religion or politics, and this has become somewhat self-perpetuating. If someone spammed a political article into a common venue (we don't use slack because it's such a waste of time), then I doubt it would get reported - just ignored. > Politics are inextricable from most plausible modern workplaces. I don't see how you could logically make this argument. Our business plan and financial goals have zero to do with the current political landscape.