6 ms·

I would absolutely be denied opportunities for projects, publicity, promotion, and advancement in my field if I were known to have political views that deviated

I would absolutely be denied opportunities for projects, publicity, promotion, and advancement in my field if I were known to have political views that deviated from the norm in my industry, which I will state for the record is hard left. Consequently, I express no personal non-work related opinions not only at work but in fact not even with “friendlies,” as loose lips sink ships. It is a shitty way to live, given how much time one spends at work.

morelisp 6y ago
Which industry do you work in? I am looking for a new job and would appreciate something hard-left rather than hard-California, which seems to be the new norm in the worldwide software industry.
- chromatin 6y ago
  Not being familiar with California, How would you delineate the differences?
  - tupputuppu 6y ago
    I'd be interested as well. I work for a Californian tech company and I would mostly describe it as "hard left". We have mandatory trainings quarterly where we have to do exams where we say "as long as 50% of tech workers aren't female and black, we 've got a discrimination issue." I've got coworkers who've told me over a beer that they work here exactly so they wouldn't have to work with people who have "other values" and they feel its good those sort of people are outed. So in essence, feels like a textbook example of what the article was talking about, with leftists having consider able freedom to talk about politics and everyone else marginalized.
runawaybottle 6y ago
So I don’t get it, did we create a situation where you cannot discuss politics at lunch with coworkers?
- morelisp 6y ago
  Yes, discussing politics was so much easier when your coworkers weren't queers and women and negros.
- chromatin 6y ago
  I assume the best in people and assume your question is earnest. I also do not implicitly agree with “we” because I don’t know you personally. But yes, the second portion of my comment was intended to capture that even outside of work with co-worker friends I am reluctant to express opinions. Even if I am mainstream today, or on a particular issue, the winds can shift quickly. That is a dangerous and toxic milieu.
another_sock 6y ago
It is a healthier way to live to keep that sort of stuff to yourself. There used to be a rule not to bring up religion or politics up at work, and this rule was good. Just because the left or what is more commonly known as liberal side of people are increasingly comfortable ignoring that rule doesn't make it any less of a proper rule. Keep the personal feelings aside and do what you're paid to do to the best of your ability, eventually the pendulum will swing in the other direction and the loud people now will be punished for being loud, and then the people on the right will begin to be loud and obnoxious. At that point, even if you agree with things being said, still keep your mouth shut and do your work to your best of your ability. Everybody who is paying attention and values hard work sees who is showing restraint and that restraint gets rewarded in the long term. It's not as fun in the short term to have discipline when very few people around you have discipline, but long term it is much more fun and worthwhile.
koheripbal 6y ago
I applaud your ability to keep politics out of work. We created a hard rule at our company in 2016: No politics / No religion. Most humans are incapable of discussing these topics rationally, and it only serves to increase division at work. One person could not handle the idea of not being politically active at work, and we discovered after she quit that almost everyone was happier no having her toxic commentary omnipresent. In the best case scenario, folks like this are a big distraction - at worst they are a source for litigation, security issues, and horrible employee productivity. People who want to be politically active at work are absolute poison to creating a healthy cooperative team environment. You're doing the right thing, and if everyone else's constant hammering of politics at work is creating a bad environment for you, it's probably doing the same for others. You may want to anonymously suggest to the higher-ups that a similar rule should be implemented. Everyone will be happier.
- chromatin 6y ago
  Great comment. In fact even years ago before the current environment it was my rule to leave politics and religion out of the workplace and really focus on work. You are absolutely right that most humans cannot have a rational discussion without investing their emotions. However what’s new(?), and tragic, is (a) omnipresent social media and/or digital footprint and (b) that discourse outside work with coworker friends — at least for me but I suspect for many of those of us working 80+ hours, our social circle is largely coworkers or industry colleagues — could massively negatively affect career. The current environment likely leads to a sense of isolation , ironically likely shared by the /majority/ of people.
- mlthoughts2018 6y ago
  Your comment belies pretty repressive, judgmental, arrogant and close-minded attributes on your part. This attitude reminds me of the military’s “don’t ask, don’t tell” repression policy against gay service members. People should feel they don’t have to unnaturally switch off core important parts of their identity at work. They need to have psychological safety to outwardly “be themselves” - without burden to exert extra effort to unnaturally be different. If you want to talk about severe extremes like preventing hate speech at work or not being allowed to practice nudism in the office, then fine, there’s worthwhile discussion of limits. But if you want to say “no religion” and “no politics” just because you personally have the extreme arrogance to say “most humans” can’t discuss those topics rationally, then you personally are just an authoritarian thug - and this comes through strongly with the pejorative way you write about religious people, political people and what you personally deem to be “toxic.” It is far more likely that you are the toxic element, hoping to repress aspects of employee culture for self-serving reasons that change the workplace into an environment you personally prefer at the expense of basic humanity and inclusiveness for others.
mc32 6y ago
I lean libertarian (although I hold some things things that are left and some right), so as you can imagine my views are not orthodox and would conflict with official statements by C-suite people. In this climate I absolutely express no political opinion no matter how well I could present the logic. I neither agree nor disagree with them so as not to give them a tell.
astura 6y ago
I find this to be rather odd only because I've never felt like I wanted to share my political opinions at work, so I don't feel like I'm missing anything. Beyond that we are all too busy working at work so there's not really time to debate the merits of [policy]. But I also don't live in California or work at a venture capital funded startup
Simulacra 6y ago
I’m hard right and I face the same issues. It’s unfair, but cancel culture is what it is, and I don’t see any major companies standing up against it.

morelisp 6y ago

Which industry do you work in? I am looking for a new job and would appreciate something hard-left rather than hard-California, which seems to be the new norm in the worldwide software industry.

chromatin 6y ago
Not being familiar with California, How would you delineate the differences?
- tupputuppu 6y ago
  I'd be interested as well. I work for a Californian tech company and I would mostly describe it as "hard left". We have mandatory trainings quarterly where we have to do exams where we say "as long as 50% of tech workers aren't female and black, we 've got a discrimination issue." I've got coworkers who've told me over a beer that they work here exactly so they wouldn't have to work with people who have "other values" and they feel its good those sort of people are outed. So in essence, feels like a textbook example of what the article was talking about, with leftists having consider able freedom to talk about politics and everyone else marginalized.

runawaybottle 6y ago

So I don’t get it, did we create a situation where you cannot discuss politics at lunch with coworkers?

morelisp 6y ago
Yes, discussing politics was so much easier when your coworkers weren't queers and women and negros.
chromatin 6y ago
I assume the best in people and assume your question is earnest. I also do not implicitly agree with “we” because I don’t know you personally. But yes, the second portion of my comment was intended to capture that even outside of work with co-worker friends I am reluctant to express opinions. Even if I am mainstream today, or on a particular issue, the winds can shift quickly. That is a dangerous and toxic milieu.

another_sock 6y ago

It is a healthier way to live to keep that sort of stuff to yourself. There used to be a rule not to bring up religion or politics up at work, and this rule was good. Just because the left or what is more commonly known as liberal side of people are increasingly comfortable ignoring that rule doesn't make it any less of a proper rule. Keep the personal feelings aside and do what you're paid to do to the best of your ability, eventually the pendulum will swing in the other direction and the loud people now will be punished for being loud, and then the people on the right will begin to be loud and obnoxious. At that point, even if you agree with things being said, still keep your mouth shut and do your work to your best of your ability. Everybody who is paying attention and values hard work sees who is showing restraint and that restraint gets rewarded in the long term. It's not as fun in the short term to have discipline when very few people around you have discipline, but long term it is much more fun and worthwhile.

koheripbal 6y ago

I applaud your ability to keep politics out of work. We created a hard rule at our company in 2016: No politics / No religion. Most humans are incapable of discussing these topics rationally, and it only serves to increase division at work. One person could not handle the idea of not being politically active at work, and we discovered after she quit that almost everyone was happier no having her toxic commentary omnipresent. In the best case scenario, folks like this are a big distraction - at worst they are a source for litigation, security issues, and horrible employee productivity. People who want to be politically active at work are absolute poison to creating a healthy cooperative team environment. You're doing the right thing, and if everyone else's constant hammering of politics at work is creating a bad environment for you, it's probably doing the same for others. You may want to anonymously suggest to the higher-ups that a similar rule should be implemented. Everyone will be happier.

chromatin 6y ago
Great comment. In fact even years ago before the current environment it was my rule to leave politics and religion out of the workplace and really focus on work. You are absolutely right that most humans cannot have a rational discussion without investing their emotions. However what’s new(?), and tragic, is (a) omnipresent social media and/or digital footprint and (b) that discourse outside work with coworker friends — at least for me but I suspect for many of those of us working 80+ hours, our social circle is largely coworkers or industry colleagues — could massively negatively affect career. The current environment likely leads to a sense of isolation , ironically likely shared by the /majority/ of people.
mlthoughts2018 6y ago
Your comment belies pretty repressive, judgmental, arrogant and close-minded attributes on your part. This attitude reminds me of the military’s “don’t ask, don’t tell” repression policy against gay service members. People should feel they don’t have to unnaturally switch off core important parts of their identity at work. They need to have psychological safety to outwardly “be themselves” - without burden to exert extra effort to unnaturally be different. If you want to talk about severe extremes like preventing hate speech at work or not being allowed to practice nudism in the office, then fine, there’s worthwhile discussion of limits. But if you want to say “no religion” and “no politics” just because you personally have the extreme arrogance to say “most humans” can’t discuss those topics rationally, then you personally are just an authoritarian thug - and this comes through strongly with the pejorative way you write about religious people, political people and what you personally deem to be “toxic.” It is far more likely that you are the toxic element, hoping to repress aspects of employee culture for self-serving reasons that change the workplace into an environment you personally prefer at the expense of basic humanity and inclusiveness for others.

mc32 6y ago

I lean libertarian (although I hold some things things that are left and some right), so as you can imagine my views are not orthodox and would conflict with official statements by C-suite people. In this climate I absolutely express no political opinion no matter how well I could present the logic. I neither agree nor disagree with them so as not to give them a tell.

astura 6y ago

I find this to be rather odd only because I've never felt like I wanted to share my political opinions at work, so I don't feel like I'm missing anything. Beyond that we are all too busy working at work so there's not really time to debate the merits of [policy]. But I also don't live in California or work at a venture capital funded startup

Simulacra 6y ago

I’m hard right and I face the same issues. It’s unfair, but cancel culture is what it is, and I don’t see any major companies standing up against it.