21 ms·

WordPerfect for DOS Updated

380 points by elvis70 6y ago

ourmandave 6y ago
From the article: The reasons for this WordPerfect for DOS, in the opinion of many knowledgeable users, is still the greatest program ever written. Some of its features have not been matched even by the latest Windows software, and its interface remains unequaled for efficiency and elegance. tl;dr; We're vi and we know it.
- onychomys 6y ago
  Does make one wonder just which features he's talking about here. It's been probably 30 years since I used WP for DOS, so I don't quite remember how it all worked, but I have trouble believing there's anything all that great about it.
  - llarsson 6y ago
    If you have decades worth of muscle memory invested in it, you bet it is one of the best programs out there... for you. This is how I feel about vim, at any rate.
  - snomad 6y ago
    Reveal codes. They had a box below main editor that everyone used to go in and edit codes for outlines, indentation, page breaks, etc. Super simple. https://images.pcworld.com/reviews/graphics/125257-2406p075-2b.gif https://images.pcworld.com/reviews/graphics/125257-2406p075-...
    - magicalhippo 6y ago
      It's a feature I miss every time I use Word. It's so simple, yet so effective.
    - nothis 6y ago
      Word literally has this. Certainly InDesign.
      - ghaff 6y ago
        Word Perfect as I recall actually let you directly manipulate those codes though. Think of it a bit like toggling between an edit view and raw HTML. Personally, I never liked WordPerfect, nor did I use it much. I used a lot of different word processors but mostly ended up standardizing on Microsoft Word (well pre-Windows) for personal use.
      - EricE 6y ago
        Word has nothing like it. Word has a filtered view of codes. WP laid it all bare. Every code and nuance was presented. Nothing was filtered or interpreted. I recovered many a screwed up document that you would just have to redo in Word if it ever got into such a state. I still miss a real reveal codes in Word. There was a public outcry for it back in the day and a snotty response from a Microsoft PM - wish I could remember enough details to see if I could find it but I'm convinced MS never really delivered a true reveal codes purely out of spite.
    - boudewijnrempt 6y ago
      Reveal codes was a crutch. There was nothing great about it, no matter how much it's wrapped in a nostalgic haze now. It's basically telling people "we cannot make this wordprocessor work reliably, please code up your text yourself once things go wrong". And yes, I've used WordPerfect from 4.0 to 7.something on Dos, Windows, various unices and Linux.
      - nocman 6y ago
        > Reveal codes was a crutch. So do you think the inspector in modern browsers, or "view source" are a crutch then? I wholeheartedly disagree with this assertion, and there is absolutely no "nostalgic haze" clouding my vision. While I do agree that sometimes pulling up "reveal codes" could have revealed formatting problems caused by a bug in Wordperfect, the difference between WP and MS Word, was that you could actually DO something quick to fix the problem, rather than in Word, where the answer was often "something is royally screwed up -- you get to start over now".
  - Tomte 6y ago
    The usual suspects are: * reveal codes (a second mode, where you can see typographic and layout commands interspersed with the text itself, a bit like HTML tags) * templates for judicial submissions (many US courts enforce strict layout and typographic rules, and WP is said to cater to that)
    - jagged-chisel 6y ago
      > * reveal codes MS Word used to do this. Does it not now? (I don't use Word...) > ... many US courts enforce strict layout and typographic rules, and WP is said to cater to that Now this is a good reason. No one wants to redo that work for another word processor every time a new version changes formatting rules.
      - maxerickson 6y ago
        Word will show formatting marks and the contents of fields. I don't know WordPerfect so I can't make a comparison.
        __s 6y ago
        It doesn't compare: https://www.howtogeek.com/104940/reveal-formatting-in-word-2010 https://www.howtogeek.com/104940/reveal-formatting-in-word-2... https://www.wordperfect.com/en/pages/items/1500650.html https://www.wordperfect.com/en/pages/items/1500650.html
      - unilynx 6y ago
        > MS Word used to do this. Does it not now? (I don't use Word...) Are you sure about that? At least since Word 95, it used what you could call a two-dimensional markup system - paragraphs and character formatting was separated, and character formatting could span over paragraph starts and ends. for example, the formatting codes could say "from character position 5 in paragraph one to character position 2 in paragraph two, set bold to opposite setting of whatever was in the stylesheet of the paragraph". that would be very hard to present in a WP-like 'reveal codes' view (or in HTML, for that matter)
- lifthrasiir 6y ago
  Running WPDOS in a web browser with a cloud storage (well, periodic memory snapshots) would be the best choice for who still wants it today. We already had multiple solutions for vi...
  - lproven 6y ago
    It really wouldn't. The entire point of this exercise is that it is tiny and blindingly fast. Running it inside a bloated whole-system emulator, in a bloated failure-prone semi-interpreted language, inside a bloated failure-prone app like any modern web browser, is like proposing replacing a bicycle with a shipping container containing an exercise bike, with a VR headset, mounted on the back of a flatbed articulated truck. Which has a broken gearbox and no tyres and can only scrape screaming and skidding along the road, enveloped in flames and smoke.
    - lifthrasiir 6y ago
      Well, it does solve the problem of backup. Both softwares and hardwares had been and continue to be fragile; it will be a constant problem unless you ditch electronics and go with typewriters (which are indeed fine alternatives).
      - lproven 6y ago
        I hear this justification a lot. It's not really true: it's generalising a simple point until it no longer holds. Yes, all software is complex and fallible. But not all software is equal. If you strip away half a dozen layers of indirection and translation, and replace gigs of code with hundreds of kilobytes of it, then there are dramatic differences. In performance, in reliability, in robustness, in maintainability, in safety. WordPerfect for DOS, like all DOS apps, had to run in under 640 KB of usable memory -- 2/3 of a meg -- and it shared that with the OS. However, that OS went through 20 years of development and polishing and it was very solid at the end. WordPerfect ran on about a dozen different OSes and CPUs, and as such it was very clean, exceptionally thoroughly tested and debugged software. When you have a honed, polished single-function app -- a word processor and nothing else -- that runs in 200-300KB of memory, that can perform well on an 8MHz CPU, running on a 30-40KB OS that runs well on kit half that speed, and you run it on 21st century hardware, the result achieves a level of performance that is literally impossible with any 21st century OS with all its multitasking and multithreading and millions of lines of poorly-integrated code.
- flatiron 6y ago
  I totally get using vi to write a book or something on an air gapped computer. No distractions. But not sure about WordPerfect. To each their own though.
  - taviso 6y ago
    Vi is a text editor, not a word processor. The important difference (for me) is that a word processor understands proportional font geometries and physical page dimensions, so I can layout the page interactively. For example, I have some text that I want to fit on a single page of A4 in Helvetica 12pt, and I'm willing to edit it until it fits. I think that's a really hard problem to solve in a text editor, but it's trivial in a word processor. I also use WordPerfect for DOS, because it's a full-featured word processor that you can use in a terminal (I think the author of this site uses it in graphical mode, but I prefer to use it in an xterm). Here's a screenshot, notice how WordPerfect knows where the text will wrap. https://twitter.com/taviso/status/1303841149421891584 https://twitter.com/taviso/status/1303841149421891584
jeffrallen 6y ago
Do not miss the first link on the page...
- cosarara 6y ago
  Site map?
  - Izkata 6y ago
    Probably the first after the navigation - it's a link to XKCD.
unixhero 6y ago
Why is everyone equating vi to WordPerfect. Vi and WP are miles apart.
- aflag 6y ago
  While they are built for different purposes, they are still 40+ year old editors that are still in use today. Although vi, or should I say vim, is still seeing more active development than wordperfect for dos, it's still true to its original ui and design. So, if you don't find weird that many of us are using vi on a daily basis, maybe we shouldn't find it weird that wordperfect for dos is still in use today.
- alerighi 6y ago
  Because it highlights the same thing: failure of modern graphical UIs. The programmers that prefer VIM (or Emacs) to more modern fully features graphical IDEs are basically the same as the writer who prefers an old DOS program. It means that old software was more usable and reliable to the point that a lot of people is more productive with it than modern programs. It is a big fail of the modern way of realizing applications.
  - chongli 6y ago
    The triumph of modern GUIs lies with the discoverability that the mouse/trackpad/touchscreen bring to the table. This is absolutely critical for onboarding beginners. In the modern day, computers are so ubiquitous that the vast majority of users are either beginners or dabblers (basically an eternal beginner). Text-based interfaces have always been way faster at what they do (anything non-graphical). You simply cannot beat the efficiency of a power user who knows all of the keyboard shortcuts for their favourite text editor. I don't think that's an indictment of the GUI, however. The GUI ushered in ubiquitous computing akin to the personal automobile. Text-based interfaces remain a powerful, highly specialized tool for those who have the time and the need to learn them.
    - opan 6y ago
      Emacs' built in help is pretty good, I think. If you teach someone C-h f for function help, C-h k for keybind help, etc. I think they can get pretty far. The which-key package is great for discoverability as well. You can start pressings keys and then see a map of which next key presses do which action. I used vim for years, but always used a search engine to figure stuff out. I think Emacs got it right here. There's also the graphical menu system in Emacs, but I've always hidden it and avoided it.
DanielleMolloy 6y ago
Necessary pointer: George R R Martin still writes on WordStar 4.0 on DOS. https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-27407502 https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-27407502 Conan clip this refers to: https://youtu.be/X5REM-3nWHg https://youtu.be/X5REM-3nWHg As I need to write for work I recently got into this topic - this blog post makes some interesting points about how distraction free writing used to be the norm: https://vascsurg.me/2019/11/17/distraction-free-writing-used-to-be-the-norm-with-technology/ https://vascsurg.me/2019/11/17/distraction-free-writing-used... The AlphaSmart Neo devices became tremendously popular among writers recently, apparently many of them can’t stand modern software anymore because it has become too visually distracting for them: https://orcutt.net/weblog/2018/03/17/my-prodigiously-convoluted-yet-miraculously-productive-low-tech-writing-process-part-2-with-a-few-modest-writing-secrets/ https://orcutt.net/weblog/2018/03/17/my-prodigiously-convolu... Distractions certainly are too blame here, but my pet theory is that the added visual input blocks top down imagery in the visual system.
- reaperducer 6y ago
  See also: Tom Hanks. He's become so disillusioned with modern word processing that he uses a typewriter. It made him such a fan of typewriters that he has an app called Hanx Writer to simulate various typewriters on iOS devices. At this point, Microsoft Word is so geared toward writing inter-office memos that I feel bad for anyone who wants to do any serious writing on it.
  - Spooky23 6y ago
    Big companies are only capable of sustaining what they do. That’s why Outlook and Excel are almost operating systems and Word meanders around with no real focus. It is not an opinionated app. Changes in Word are driven by awful end user communities like attorneys. Attorneys are smart people, but the influential ones have doctor egos, get set in their ways, and spend their day interacting with fossilized bureaucracies, as demonstrated by the fact that people are still screwing around with WordPerfect 5 for DOS in 2020. The excuses given (ie “Federal court filings are finicky”) are 100% bullshit. The reality is the chief poobah of counsel likes WordPerfect because he’s the chief poohbah, and his minions get to suck it up and learn how to use an application released when they were in diapers.
jlgaddis 6y ago
I've still got my 3.5" WordPerfect floppies -- found 'em a while back when moving!
itwy 6y ago
Nostalgia.
floatingatoll 6y ago
I enjoyed that the site takes a lot of care around providing instructions to technical people, and a lot of those summarize as “start over; follow the instructions as written”.
zerr 6y ago
Didn't catch - who updated it and how?
sys_64738 6y ago
Emacs?
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
volaski 6y ago
In John wick, they use commodore computer and dial phones for security purposes, reminds me of that :)
- elvis70 6y ago
  See this article: https://www.osti.gov/servlets/purl/1616454 https://www.osti.gov/servlets/purl/1616454 (Vintage electronics for trusted radiation measurements and verified dismantlement of nuclear weapons by Moritz Kütt and Alexander Glaser). They used an Apple IIe. Pictures available on this article in French: https://www.macg.co/materiel/2020/05/un-apple-iie-pour-controler-un-desarmement-nucleaire-113985 https://www.macg.co/materiel/2020/05/un-apple-iie-pour-contr...
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varispeed 6y ago
This is neat! I wish we had more DOS-like applications instead of poor looking Windows and graphical ui that you have to spend ages to navigate with mouse instead of using a number of keyboard shortcuts.
- pizza234 6y ago
  I'm a keyboard-first user, and I don't find, generally speaking, applications to be keyboard-oblivious, although, the exceptions stick out like a sore thumb. Worst offender is certainly Gnome, which is nothing short than antagonistic. They went as far as disabling mnemonics by default. They removed the fast search in the file manager, in favour of the fancy (and broken) one; keyboard user must use the awkward, inline, one. The file manager also lost the "New folder" shortcut. Another notable entry is Sublime Text (which is not antagonistic, but somewhat oblivious). Very surprisingly, the file panel doesn't respond to keyboard events. For example, if the user wants to rename a file via keyboard, they're forced to copy the filename, then perform the operation via terminal.
wdb 6y ago
Maybe my memory plays tricks on me but didn't WP 6 be graphical on DOS?
- EricE 6y ago
  They tried - it was a slow, ungainly disaster. Yes, it took more to master WP5.1 in character mode, but once you did nothing was faster.
  - lproven 6y ago
    It was slow then. It's not now, not on even a decade-old PC. But TBH, the text mode just works, and you can readily tweak DOS on a modern SVGA screen to display 132*50 text or something like that. I know I'm a heretic for saying it, but I still like MS Word for DOS. It even shows me bold, underline and italics right there on the text screen, rather than making me guess colours like WordPerfect always did. This tweet shows what I mean elegantly: https://twitter.com/taviso/status/1303841149421891584 https://twitter.com/taviso/status/1303841149421891584
  - lproven 6y ago
    Contrast with Word 6: https://winworldpc.com/screenshot/c3a2c2b3-c2a2-c692-2615-11c3a4e284a2/26e282ac-c2bd-7542-0611-c3a4c2a83d70 https://winworldpc.com/screenshot/c3a2c2b3-c2a2-c692-2615-11...
- boudewijnrempt 6y ago
  You could also use it in text mode, which was better. But... 5.1 was still so much more stable.
- lproven 6y ago
  Yes. It was an option: it had the classic text mode, same as ever and very fast, or an optional WYSIWYG graphical mode. I have it running on bare metal on PC DOS 7.1 (not 7.01, 7.1, the last ever version of DOS, with FAT32 and LBA support). On a Core 2 Duo it is very fast in graphics mode, and quite usable.
nickt 6y ago
I was inspired to do something similar after reading these two posts on using the Amiga version of WordPerfect for writing. [1], [2]. It’s distraction free, works well with a modern monitor and I always liked the Amiga keyboard. It’s a huge context switch to swivel my chair from my modern Mac to the other desk and start writing on the Amiga. [1] https://www.amigalove.com/viewtopic.php?t=41 https://www.amigalove.com/viewtopic.php?t=41 [2] https://www.amigalove.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=101 https://www.amigalove.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=101
- dm319 6y ago
  These were a great read! I have made a headless linux laptop with vim as a fairly distraction free environment. I have also used a Psion 5MX to take notes while out and about, and my only caveat for those wanting to use retro devices for important things is to back up often! I'd forgotten how unreliable old filesystems and media were.
  - nickt 6y ago
    Sounds like we’re thinking along the same lines! Love to try the Psion, it’s been a while since I’ve been hands on with a Series 5.
    - dm319 6y ago
      I think there's definitely a niche for a keyboard-driven PDA type device, ideally with some sort of e-ink display so it works nicely outside and doesn't require frequent charging. I think these days it would come with some sort of automatic cloud backup, and I wouldn't mind if it was text-based either. The gemini and cosmos come close, but I think I'd need a proper bit of time with them to see if they fill that niche or not.
      - nickt 6y ago
        Thanks for that - I'd not seen the Cosmos and Gemini [1] [1] https://planetcom.squarespace.com/device https://planetcom.squarespace.com/device
cambinoda 6y ago
> If your antivirus software tells you that any program downloaded from this site is infected with malware, this is the result of a "false positive." RED FLAG.
- GuB-42 6y ago
  This runs on what is essentially an emulator, and I expect it to use techniques that rewrites executable memory or does unusual system calls. Malware use similar techniques to hide themselves, and therefore, false positives are to be expected. These are also very common in size constrained demoscene productions. This especially funny to coders who work really hard to squeeze every single byte out of their production to suggest that they can fit a malware in there.
  - cambinoda 6y ago
    Making a blanket statement about no malware ever on our site is a recipe for future liability. Defending it is irresponsible.
gpapilion 6y ago
I remember having a discussion in the early 2000s about WordPerfect still staying around for various legal use-cases and medical transcriptions. I would have thought these folks would have moved on and something would have been able to fill it’s niche.
- dctoedt 6y ago
  Back in the day, my then-law firm was upgrading from DOS to Windows. There were some lawyers who said that of course we should upgrade from WordPerfect for DOS to the Windows version because, after all, WordPerfect was the industry standard for law firms. But the techies among us successfully argued that we shouldn't give a [hoot] what other law firms were using — what mattered was what our clients were using, which our surveys showed was uniformly Microsoft Word for Windows. That proved prescient.
  - donarb 6y ago
    There was a technical reason that WP was used by law firms. When submitting briefs to a court, total word count in a brief is extremely important. WordPerfect counts words in footnotes as part of the document, MSWord did not. This led to one case where the lawyers were being considered for sanctions by submitting a document over the word count limit due to using Microsoft Word. https://caselaw.findlaw.com/us-7th-circuit/1147966.html https://caselaw.findlaw.com/us-7th-circuit/1147966.html
EricE 6y ago
A place I was working at in the early 90's cleared out a storage room of old software boxes. I snagged together complete sets of WP 5.1 in both 3.5" disks and 5.25" disks. Grey box, manuals and all. If I had ever suspected such a thing like Ebay could have ever existed I would have carted the whole dumpster home. Oh well...
zzzeek 6y ago
My start in the world of urban work environments was an office temp. Oddly enough I got pretty good at using Word Perfect and was given free training for more features and stuff by one of the top temp agencies at the time, and then I got to work the "lobster" shift at lawfirms and banks. Word Perfect for DOS has a ton of features that folks normally wouldn't know about like redlining and all kinds of fancy image rendering things (sorry it was > 25 years ago and I can't recollect specifics), law firms had an entire version-control system integrated with it. Word Perfect was also how I ended up being an actual programmer for money in NYC. I started automating my work at some of these firms with macros and later with some C and Perl code and some of the gigs I had I could just walk in and spend all day on IRC while I'd get paid $20 an hour (which was a lot) for my scripts to run through all the docs they thought I was re-formatting by hand.
- EricE 6y ago
  Reveal Codes was the single greatest feature of WordPerfect - I'm convinced Microsoft continues to refuse to provide the equivalent out of spite for WP. Does anyone else remember calling into WP tech support during its heyday? They had a hold queue disk jokey that would interact with people on hold. It was a nice touch.
  - gadders 6y ago
    I think the DJ role rotated amongst the support staff. At least that's what I told happened in the UK (Source: worked for Lotus Support, nearly worked at WP).
  - onionisafruit 6y ago
    Thanks for bringing up the DJ. I remember that but what company had it. You could also have convinced me I dreamed it. edit: googled it and found an article from 1991 on what looks like a local news site. https://www.deseret.com/1991/7/17/18931236/don-t-hang-up-deejays-make-wait-bearable https://www.deseret.com/1991/7/17/18931236/don-t-hang-up-dee...
    - mholt 6y ago
tehabe 6y ago
I love how a small community is keeping a piece of software alive which is probably forgotten by most people. Adding the euro symbol or the ability to create PDF files.
forgotmypw17 6y ago
I write in Word 97 inside a VM. Still faster than LibreOffice.
- dm319 6y ago
  Are you on linux? See here: https://www.reddit.com/r/winehq/comments/hgr6a9/which_version_of_microsoft_word_runs_best_on/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3 https://www.reddit.com/r/winehq/comments/hgr6a9/which_versio...
  - forgotmypw17 6y ago
    Thank you for suggestion, I will try installing it. After my experience with IE on Wine, I gave up trying to run Microsoft apps on Wine.
- lproven 6y ago
  Who needs a VM? I run it on WINE on Ubuntu. It works perfectly, including installing the service releases. Formatted cut/paste works, I can directly browse my Linux filesystem, it launches in seconds, is blisteringly quick and takes very little RAM. The only things I can't do are middle-click to paste, and use my Compose key. If you don't do them, you won't even notice it's not a native app.
  - forgotmypw17 6y ago
    I use Wine too, for things like Netscape, Mosaic, etc. Microsoft apps run much better in a VM in my experience, because of how tightly coupled their development was with WinAPI. I already need a VM for IE, which definitely does not work right in Wine for me, so why not Office too.
    - lproven 6y ago
      > I use Wine too, for things like Netscape, Mosaic, etc. OK. I used to do that for IE but I haven't needed it in about a decade. > Microsoft apps run much better in a VM in my experience, because of how tightly > coupled their development was with WinAPI. Some do. Not all. WINE is also impressively good now. > I already need a VM for IE, which definitely does not work right in Wine for me That, I certainly believe. > so why not Office too. A whole bunch of reasons. [1] No need for a Windows licence; [2] Speed of startup; [3] Much lower resource usage; [4] Better integration with the host OS; [5] No need to maintain a copy of Windows inside a VM with updates; [6] No vulnerabilities in the host OS because there isn't one; [7] Windows that freely mix with native windows, not in a single seamless plane for all of them. I'm sure I could come up with more given more than a minute's thought. :-)
tomcam 6y ago
Pretty trippy. This requires a licensed copy of WordPerfect, which Corel no longer sells. They gave the rights to a woman who operates by email with the handle thewp51lady@att.net: http://www.columbia.edu/~em36/wpdos/links.html#obtain http://www.columbia.edu/~em36/wpdos/links.html#obtain
- elvis70 6y ago
  If you're feeling adventurous, try https://winworldpc.com/ https://winworldpc.com/
- jandrese 6y ago
  After reading those paragraphs I'd be inclined to just pirate the damn thing. It's very confusing. I can't tell if you actually get a license if you order from that random lady or if it's just replacement disks. There's a long section afterward about how to obtain a license key and it's basically "scour the used market and pray that you don't get scammed".
  - chongli 6y ago
    You may have quite a challenge on your hands with that approach. WordPerfect for DOS is a very complicated piece of software that comes with a 600+ page paper manual. The program is absolutely chock-full of keyboard shortcuts and hidden functionality. It's not discoverable the way a modern GUI application would be. Buying it on eBay may be one of the only legal ways to get your hands on that manual. Though I suppose you could also look for a 3rd-party book, it may not cover every feature of the application.
    - therealcamino 6y ago
      Lots of people got 80% of the way there with one of those keyboard templates -- a plastic overlay that fits around your function keys and tells you what it does by itself, and when combined with Shift/Ctrl/Alt, and in the margins explains some other useful keys. But it's easier to learn by word of mouth -- when everyone around you is using it and you can ask the person next to you. Obviously that route doesn't work anymore! So people might actually read the manual.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
pseingatl 6y ago
Distraction-free alternatives: Writeroom (for Mac or its derivatives for other operating systems) --Pyroom for Linux --Darkroom for Windows --Also Q10 for Windows (which has typewriter sounds); GhostWriter, NisusWriter Pro; Ulysses. These are distraction-free writing programs. The purpose is to eliminate computer interruptions or temptations so that you can write. Scrivener: for editing and organization. Scrivener is a writing and organization program. It was originally developed by a novelist who was frustrated by how difficult it is to move back and forth in long Word documents. Word's Document Map doesn't work all that well. Originally Scrivener was supposed to be just a first draft production document but it has grown and can currently be used to create documents in just about any format a writer will need (it's a little weak on appellate briefs). It also has a full-screen distraction free mode. If you need to complete a long work quickly you need Scrivener. Also consider: Alphasmart, by Dana. This is a full-size keyboard attached to a Palm(pilot) operating system. It comes with a Word-compatible Word processor. You use SD cards to get your files off the computer. There is also an educational model which is cheaper and has less functionality. Battery life for these is very good: think weeks instead of hours.
- pseingatl 6y ago
  There's also Poe for Windows.
- classichasclass 6y ago
  Not just SD cards: the AlphaSmart series (Dana is the name of the unit, not the other way around) can emulate keyboards. Connect the Dana via USB to another computer and it will "type" your notes into it. My mother transferred her church notes this way. All AlphaSmarts do this but Dana is the most useful for modern systems because of its connectivity options and being Palm-based besides. It was really the closest thing to a Palm laptop.
- WorldMaker 6y ago
  While mentioning distraction free alternatives, even Word has a full screen "Focus Mode", if that is the tool you have available or need to use for whatever reason. Another useful tip: Word's Focus Mode, like some of the ones mentioned, goes to a Full Screen window. In Windows 10 you can set "Focus Assist" settings that will turn off all notifications that Windows is aware of and things like that whenever you are using a full screen application. (I believe that particular Focus Assist option is actually the default now, but it's easy to double check.)
AstroAdam 6y ago
A modern distraction-free writing tool does exist. Check out the Freewrite product line at getfreewrite.com
mechnesium 6y ago
I'm not sure how I feel about this, personally. On the one hand, this is awesome for people who might actually still use this archaic piece of software. On the other hand, it seems like a waste of resources that could be better spent on improving modern software.
- cbozeman 6y ago
  That's sort of my feeling on this whole deal. You could design a word processor with all the features people loved in WP 5.1, that runs on modern software and hardware.
  - lproven 6y ago
    What? You couldn't, you know. Look at existing cloning efforts, like WordTsar. Years of work and they're not even really close yet. Secondly, its virtues are its blinding speed, small size and simplicity. All modern software is the reverse of that, especially the abominations of Electron apps. Thirdly, your clone couldn't be very close, as WordPerfect is alive and well and owned by Corel. Make it too close and they'll sue.
- userbinator 6y ago
  For some people, "modern software" is a lost cause.
bobochan 6y ago
I used to produce absolutely enormous bibliographies of scientific publication for NSF reports from databases. We used to try and write complex macros to format the text properly (not sure if we didn't know about RTF, or whether it was supported?), but it was always slow and painful. Then we found that if we used Find/Replace to put something like a [BeginItalics][EndItalics] code at the end of the title, followed by a [BeginItalics] code at the beginning of the title WP 5.1 would ignore the second [BeginItalics] code and format everything properly. We immediately figured out that we just needed to add tokens in the text and then could format hundreds of pages of text in just a few seconds. Happiness ensued.
Arubis 6y ago
For a writer that isn’t already familiar with WordPerfect, is there a compelling case to learn from scratch in this day and age? (Particularly if already familiar with another powerful editor.)
- lproven 6y ago
  There is a case for it in this article, by the author of the site in the root post. https://www.nybooks.com/daily/2014/10/21/escape-microsoft-word/ https://www.nybooks.com/daily/2014/10/21/escape-microsoft-wo...
aidenn0 6y ago
I remember my Dad making a function key template that went over the keyboard and included all of the modifiers. That made unusual commands findable and common commands quickly learnable. Menus are just slightly less-good at teaching shortcuts, because once you find the item, you click on it; you don't leave the menu and hit the shortcut
- cpach 6y ago
  Not such a bad idea. But perhaps less practical now that one use many many more applications than in the old days. Avid (video editing) had a similar thing, but took it even further: IIRC they sold their own keyboards, with color-coded keys and stuff.
- duncans 6y ago
  One that fitted the Model-M keyboard came in the box IIRC.
  - aidenn0 6y ago
    Pretty sure my dad didn't buy the software
    - lproven 6y ago
      The keyboard template itself was a physical copy-protection measure. So people photocopied them... but they were colour-coded, and you had to faff around cutting it out, sellotaping it together, sticking it to cardboard, trimming it to fit... So many programs came with function-key templates that some 3rd parties sold little spiral-bound books that sat on the template platform, and you could flip through to the one you needed.
Rizz 6y ago
Not too long ago I was asked to do some maintenance programming on a logistics program (the program did amongst others: fill the various operated trucks to not more than capacity from orders, add new orders at any time, plan the route to drive so it doesn't take more than a workday), all written in WordPerfect 5.1 macros. That program can do a lot more than most people know about. And apparently it's still used in production.
foobar1962 6y ago
Getting WP to run on a modern computer is relatively easy compared to being able to use it without the rectangular cheat-sheet that went over your keyboard function keys to tell you what key-combinations to press. <smile>
Borlands 6y ago
Boxer works really well as a self-contained executable dosbox app on macos. It’s source is available on github, but I’m not sure they’ve chosen a OSS license model
WalterBright 6y ago
I'm surprised it isn't translated to C, so it can run without a DOS emulator. I've done this to multiple large programs written in DOS assembler. It isn't that hard. You don't even have to know how the program works to translate it.
- ficklepickle 6y ago
  Interesting. How does one approach such a task? Do you just use your knowledge of assembler/C to transcribe it to C? Or is it automated to some extent?
  - ficklepickle 6y ago
    To answer my own question, you'd use a disassembler. I found this post about disassembling 16-bit DOS programs. https://reverseengineering.stackexchange.com/questions/3074/decompiling-a-1990-dos-application#3076 https://reverseengineering.stackexchange.com/questions/3074/...
ngcc_hk 6y ago
I evaluated it vs multimate and decide to use later. I think it is too shocked to be used by the typing pool that use 8.0 inch floppy wang machine. Unfortunately it did not play out when I found myself surrounded by 20 pretty typists, no not lovely standing there but attacked me like hell. I did not aware the change is not just the pool. “Who are you that changed my word processor and typewriter! Who are you?! What is that rubbish computer you are giving to us.” Given that they are serving all the top bosses in the organisation ... (drama at the last minute ... paper nit typing because the IT dept gave this ... I can imagine the sad face sitting outside one’s office abd who is this computer thing ... we are not accountant we use pen and type it out ...) I have to give up. Wang pc with wang software is the maximum I can do. Can’t remember I get that far. At least I have not sell them windows 1.0 the tile design in retrospect. Typist scared me in my whole career. :-(
yuskii 6y ago
WordPad Works Perfect $$omething $omething, House in Marin~

380 points by elvis70 6y ago

From the article: The reasons for this WordPerfect for DOS, in the opinion of many knowledgeable users, is still the greatest program ever written. Some of its features have not been matched even by the latest Windows software, and its interface remains unequaled for efficiency and elegance. tl;dr; We're vi and we know it.

onychomys 6y ago
Does make one wonder just which features he's talking about here. It's been probably 30 years since I used WP for DOS, so I don't quite remember how it all worked, but I have trouble believing there's anything all that great about it.
- llarsson 6y ago
  If you have decades worth of muscle memory invested in it, you bet it is one of the best programs out there... for you. This is how I feel about vim, at any rate.
- snomad 6y ago
  Reveal codes. They had a box below main editor that everyone used to go in and edit codes for outlines, indentation, page breaks, etc. Super simple. https://images.pcworld.com/reviews/graphics/125257-2406p075-2b.gif https://images.pcworld.com/reviews/graphics/125257-2406p075-...
  - magicalhippo 6y ago
    It's a feature I miss every time I use Word. It's so simple, yet so effective.
  - nothis 6y ago
    Word literally has this. Certainly InDesign.
    - ghaff 6y ago
      Word Perfect as I recall actually let you directly manipulate those codes though. Think of it a bit like toggling between an edit view and raw HTML. Personally, I never liked WordPerfect, nor did I use it much. I used a lot of different word processors but mostly ended up standardizing on Microsoft Word (well pre-Windows) for personal use.
    - EricE 6y ago
      Word has nothing like it. Word has a filtered view of codes. WP laid it all bare. Every code and nuance was presented. Nothing was filtered or interpreted. I recovered many a screwed up document that you would just have to redo in Word if it ever got into such a state. I still miss a real reveal codes in Word. There was a public outcry for it back in the day and a snotty response from a Microsoft PM - wish I could remember enough details to see if I could find it but I'm convinced MS never really delivered a true reveal codes purely out of spite.
  - boudewijnrempt 6y ago
    Reveal codes was a crutch. There was nothing great about it, no matter how much it's wrapped in a nostalgic haze now. It's basically telling people "we cannot make this wordprocessor work reliably, please code up your text yourself once things go wrong". And yes, I've used WordPerfect from 4.0 to 7.something on Dos, Windows, various unices and Linux.
    - nocman 6y ago
      > Reveal codes was a crutch. So do you think the inspector in modern browsers, or "view source" are a crutch then? I wholeheartedly disagree with this assertion, and there is absolutely no "nostalgic haze" clouding my vision. While I do agree that sometimes pulling up "reveal codes" could have revealed formatting problems caused by a bug in Wordperfect, the difference between WP and MS Word, was that you could actually DO something quick to fix the problem, rather than in Word, where the answer was often "something is royally screwed up -- you get to start over now".
- Tomte 6y ago
  The usual suspects are: * reveal codes (a second mode, where you can see typographic and layout commands interspersed with the text itself, a bit like HTML tags) * templates for judicial submissions (many US courts enforce strict layout and typographic rules, and WP is said to cater to that)
  - jagged-chisel 6y ago
    > * reveal codes MS Word used to do this. Does it not now? (I don't use Word...) > ... many US courts enforce strict layout and typographic rules, and WP is said to cater to that Now this is a good reason. No one wants to redo that work for another word processor every time a new version changes formatting rules.
    - maxerickson 6y ago
      Word will show formatting marks and the contents of fields. I don't know WordPerfect so I can't make a comparison.
      - __s 6y ago
        It doesn't compare: https://www.howtogeek.com/104940/reveal-formatting-in-word-2010 https://www.howtogeek.com/104940/reveal-formatting-in-word-2... https://www.wordperfect.com/en/pages/items/1500650.html https://www.wordperfect.com/en/pages/items/1500650.html
    - unilynx 6y ago
      > MS Word used to do this. Does it not now? (I don't use Word...) Are you sure about that? At least since Word 95, it used what you could call a two-dimensional markup system - paragraphs and character formatting was separated, and character formatting could span over paragraph starts and ends. for example, the formatting codes could say "from character position 5 in paragraph one to character position 2 in paragraph two, set bold to opposite setting of whatever was in the stylesheet of the paragraph". that would be very hard to present in a WP-like 'reveal codes' view (or in HTML, for that matter)
lifthrasiir 6y ago
Running WPDOS in a web browser with a cloud storage (well, periodic memory snapshots) would be the best choice for who still wants it today. We already had multiple solutions for vi...
- lproven 6y ago
  It really wouldn't. The entire point of this exercise is that it is tiny and blindingly fast. Running it inside a bloated whole-system emulator, in a bloated failure-prone semi-interpreted language, inside a bloated failure-prone app like any modern web browser, is like proposing replacing a bicycle with a shipping container containing an exercise bike, with a VR headset, mounted on the back of a flatbed articulated truck. Which has a broken gearbox and no tyres and can only scrape screaming and skidding along the road, enveloped in flames and smoke.
  - lifthrasiir 6y ago
    Well, it does solve the problem of backup. Both softwares and hardwares had been and continue to be fragile; it will be a constant problem unless you ditch electronics and go with typewriters (which are indeed fine alternatives).
    - lproven 6y ago
      I hear this justification a lot. It's not really true: it's generalising a simple point until it no longer holds. Yes, all software is complex and fallible. But not all software is equal. If you strip away half a dozen layers of indirection and translation, and replace gigs of code with hundreds of kilobytes of it, then there are dramatic differences. In performance, in reliability, in robustness, in maintainability, in safety. WordPerfect for DOS, like all DOS apps, had to run in under 640 KB of usable memory -- 2/3 of a meg -- and it shared that with the OS. However, that OS went through 20 years of development and polishing and it was very solid at the end. WordPerfect ran on about a dozen different OSes and CPUs, and as such it was very clean, exceptionally thoroughly tested and debugged software. When you have a honed, polished single-function app -- a word processor and nothing else -- that runs in 200-300KB of memory, that can perform well on an 8MHz CPU, running on a 30-40KB OS that runs well on kit half that speed, and you run it on 21st century hardware, the result achieves a level of performance that is literally impossible with any 21st century OS with all its multitasking and multithreading and millions of lines of poorly-integrated code.
flatiron 6y ago
I totally get using vi to write a book or something on an air gapped computer. No distractions. But not sure about WordPerfect. To each their own though.
- taviso 6y ago
  Vi is a text editor, not a word processor. The important difference (for me) is that a word processor understands proportional font geometries and physical page dimensions, so I can layout the page interactively. For example, I have some text that I want to fit on a single page of A4 in Helvetica 12pt, and I'm willing to edit it until it fits. I think that's a really hard problem to solve in a text editor, but it's trivial in a word processor. I also use WordPerfect for DOS, because it's a full-featured word processor that you can use in a terminal (I think the author of this site uses it in graphical mode, but I prefer to use it in an xterm). Here's a screenshot, notice how WordPerfect knows where the text will wrap. https://twitter.com/taviso/status/1303841149421891584 https://twitter.com/taviso/status/1303841149421891584

jeffrallen 6y ago

Do not miss the first link on the page...

cosarara 6y ago
Site map?
- Izkata 6y ago
  Probably the first after the navigation - it's a link to XKCD.

unixhero 6y ago

Why is everyone equating vi to WordPerfect. Vi and WP are miles apart.

aflag 6y ago
While they are built for different purposes, they are still 40+ year old editors that are still in use today. Although vi, or should I say vim, is still seeing more active development than wordperfect for dos, it's still true to its original ui and design. So, if you don't find weird that many of us are using vi on a daily basis, maybe we shouldn't find it weird that wordperfect for dos is still in use today.
alerighi 6y ago
Because it highlights the same thing: failure of modern graphical UIs. The programmers that prefer VIM (or Emacs) to more modern fully features graphical IDEs are basically the same as the writer who prefers an old DOS program. It means that old software was more usable and reliable to the point that a lot of people is more productive with it than modern programs. It is a big fail of the modern way of realizing applications.
- chongli 6y ago
  The triumph of modern GUIs lies with the discoverability that the mouse/trackpad/touchscreen bring to the table. This is absolutely critical for onboarding beginners. In the modern day, computers are so ubiquitous that the vast majority of users are either beginners or dabblers (basically an eternal beginner). Text-based interfaces have always been way faster at what they do (anything non-graphical). You simply cannot beat the efficiency of a power user who knows all of the keyboard shortcuts for their favourite text editor. I don't think that's an indictment of the GUI, however. The GUI ushered in ubiquitous computing akin to the personal automobile. Text-based interfaces remain a powerful, highly specialized tool for those who have the time and the need to learn them.
  - opan 6y ago
    Emacs' built in help is pretty good, I think. If you teach someone C-h f for function help, C-h k for keybind help, etc. I think they can get pretty far. The which-key package is great for discoverability as well. You can start pressings keys and then see a map of which next key presses do which action. I used vim for years, but always used a search engine to figure stuff out. I think Emacs got it right here. There's also the graphical menu system in Emacs, but I've always hidden it and avoided it.

DanielleMolloy 6y ago

Necessary pointer: George R R Martin still writes on WordStar 4.0 on DOS. https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-27407502 https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-27407502 Conan clip this refers to: https://youtu.be/X5REM-3nWHg https://youtu.be/X5REM-3nWHg As I need to write for work I recently got into this topic - this blog post makes some interesting points about how distraction free writing used to be the norm: https://vascsurg.me/2019/11/17/distraction-free-writing-used-to-be-the-norm-with-technology/ https://vascsurg.me/2019/11/17/distraction-free-writing-used... The AlphaSmart Neo devices became tremendously popular among writers recently, apparently many of them can’t stand modern software anymore because it has become too visually distracting for them: https://orcutt.net/weblog/2018/03/17/my-prodigiously-convoluted-yet-miraculously-productive-low-tech-writing-process-part-2-with-a-few-modest-writing-secrets/ https://orcutt.net/weblog/2018/03/17/my-prodigiously-convolu... Distractions certainly are too blame here, but my pet theory is that the added visual input blocks top down imagery in the visual system.

reaperducer 6y ago
See also: Tom Hanks. He's become so disillusioned with modern word processing that he uses a typewriter. It made him such a fan of typewriters that he has an app called Hanx Writer to simulate various typewriters on iOS devices. At this point, Microsoft Word is so geared toward writing inter-office memos that I feel bad for anyone who wants to do any serious writing on it.
- Spooky23 6y ago
  Big companies are only capable of sustaining what they do. That’s why Outlook and Excel are almost operating systems and Word meanders around with no real focus. It is not an opinionated app. Changes in Word are driven by awful end user communities like attorneys. Attorneys are smart people, but the influential ones have doctor egos, get set in their ways, and spend their day interacting with fossilized bureaucracies, as demonstrated by the fact that people are still screwing around with WordPerfect 5 for DOS in 2020. The excuses given (ie “Federal court filings are finicky”) are 100% bullshit. The reality is the chief poobah of counsel likes WordPerfect because he’s the chief poohbah, and his minions get to suck it up and learn how to use an application released when they were in diapers.

jlgaddis 6y ago

I've still got my 3.5" WordPerfect floppies -- found 'em a while back when moving!

itwy 6y ago

Nostalgia.

floatingatoll 6y ago

I enjoyed that the site takes a lot of care around providing instructions to technical people, and a lot of those summarize as “start over; follow the instructions as written”.

zerr 6y ago

Didn't catch - who updated it and how?

sys_64738 6y ago

Emacs?

deleted 6y ago
[deleted]

volaski 6y ago

In John wick, they use commodore computer and dial phones for security purposes, reminds me of that :)

elvis70 6y ago
See this article: https://www.osti.gov/servlets/purl/1616454 https://www.osti.gov/servlets/purl/1616454 (Vintage electronics for trusted radiation measurements and verified dismantlement of nuclear weapons by Moritz Kütt and Alexander Glaser). They used an Apple IIe. Pictures available on this article in French: https://www.macg.co/materiel/2020/05/un-apple-iie-pour-controler-un-desarmement-nucleaire-113985 https://www.macg.co/materiel/2020/05/un-apple-iie-pour-contr...

sarahmike 6y ago

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varispeed 6y ago

This is neat! I wish we had more DOS-like applications instead of poor looking Windows and graphical ui that you have to spend ages to navigate with mouse instead of using a number of keyboard shortcuts.

pizza234 6y ago
I'm a keyboard-first user, and I don't find, generally speaking, applications to be keyboard-oblivious, although, the exceptions stick out like a sore thumb. Worst offender is certainly Gnome, which is nothing short than antagonistic. They went as far as disabling mnemonics by default. They removed the fast search in the file manager, in favour of the fancy (and broken) one; keyboard user must use the awkward, inline, one. The file manager also lost the "New folder" shortcut. Another notable entry is Sublime Text (which is not antagonistic, but somewhat oblivious). Very surprisingly, the file panel doesn't respond to keyboard events. For example, if the user wants to rename a file via keyboard, they're forced to copy the filename, then perform the operation via terminal.

wdb 6y ago

Maybe my memory plays tricks on me but didn't WP 6 be graphical on DOS?

EricE 6y ago
They tried - it was a slow, ungainly disaster. Yes, it took more to master WP5.1 in character mode, but once you did nothing was faster.
- lproven 6y ago
  It was slow then. It's not now, not on even a decade-old PC. But TBH, the text mode just works, and you can readily tweak DOS on a modern SVGA screen to display 132*50 text or something like that. I know I'm a heretic for saying it, but I still like MS Word for DOS. It even shows me bold, underline and italics right there on the text screen, rather than making me guess colours like WordPerfect always did. This tweet shows what I mean elegantly: https://twitter.com/taviso/status/1303841149421891584 https://twitter.com/taviso/status/1303841149421891584
- lproven 6y ago
  Contrast with Word 6: https://winworldpc.com/screenshot/c3a2c2b3-c2a2-c692-2615-11c3a4e284a2/26e282ac-c2bd-7542-0611-c3a4c2a83d70 https://winworldpc.com/screenshot/c3a2c2b3-c2a2-c692-2615-11...
boudewijnrempt 6y ago
You could also use it in text mode, which was better. But... 5.1 was still so much more stable.
lproven 6y ago
Yes. It was an option: it had the classic text mode, same as ever and very fast, or an optional WYSIWYG graphical mode. I have it running on bare metal on PC DOS 7.1 (not 7.01, 7.1, the last ever version of DOS, with FAT32 and LBA support). On a Core 2 Duo it is very fast in graphics mode, and quite usable.

nickt 6y ago

I was inspired to do something similar after reading these two posts on using the Amiga version of WordPerfect for writing. [1], [2]. It’s distraction free, works well with a modern monitor and I always liked the Amiga keyboard. It’s a huge context switch to swivel my chair from my modern Mac to the other desk and start writing on the Amiga. [1] https://www.amigalove.com/viewtopic.php?t=41 https://www.amigalove.com/viewtopic.php?t=41 [2] https://www.amigalove.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=101 https://www.amigalove.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=101

dm319 6y ago
These were a great read! I have made a headless linux laptop with vim as a fairly distraction free environment. I have also used a Psion 5MX to take notes while out and about, and my only caveat for those wanting to use retro devices for important things is to back up often! I'd forgotten how unreliable old filesystems and media were.
- nickt 6y ago
  Sounds like we’re thinking along the same lines! Love to try the Psion, it’s been a while since I’ve been hands on with a Series 5.
  - dm319 6y ago
    I think there's definitely a niche for a keyboard-driven PDA type device, ideally with some sort of e-ink display so it works nicely outside and doesn't require frequent charging. I think these days it would come with some sort of automatic cloud backup, and I wouldn't mind if it was text-based either. The gemini and cosmos come close, but I think I'd need a proper bit of time with them to see if they fill that niche or not.
    - nickt 6y ago
      Thanks for that - I'd not seen the Cosmos and Gemini [1] [1] https://planetcom.squarespace.com/device https://planetcom.squarespace.com/device

cambinoda 6y ago

> If your antivirus software tells you that any program downloaded from this site is infected with malware, this is the result of a "false positive." RED FLAG.

GuB-42 6y ago
This runs on what is essentially an emulator, and I expect it to use techniques that rewrites executable memory or does unusual system calls. Malware use similar techniques to hide themselves, and therefore, false positives are to be expected. These are also very common in size constrained demoscene productions. This especially funny to coders who work really hard to squeeze every single byte out of their production to suggest that they can fit a malware in there.
- cambinoda 6y ago
  Making a blanket statement about no malware ever on our site is a recipe for future liability. Defending it is irresponsible.

gpapilion 6y ago

I remember having a discussion in the early 2000s about WordPerfect still staying around for various legal use-cases and medical transcriptions. I would have thought these folks would have moved on and something would have been able to fill it’s niche.

dctoedt 6y ago
Back in the day, my then-law firm was upgrading from DOS to Windows. There were some lawyers who said that of course we should upgrade from WordPerfect for DOS to the Windows version because, after all, WordPerfect was the industry standard for law firms. But the techies among us successfully argued that we shouldn't give a [hoot] what other law firms were using — what mattered was what our clients were using, which our surveys showed was uniformly Microsoft Word for Windows. That proved prescient.
- donarb 6y ago
  There was a technical reason that WP was used by law firms. When submitting briefs to a court, total word count in a brief is extremely important. WordPerfect counts words in footnotes as part of the document, MSWord did not. This led to one case where the lawyers were being considered for sanctions by submitting a document over the word count limit due to using Microsoft Word. https://caselaw.findlaw.com/us-7th-circuit/1147966.html https://caselaw.findlaw.com/us-7th-circuit/1147966.html

EricE 6y ago

A place I was working at in the early 90's cleared out a storage room of old software boxes. I snagged together complete sets of WP 5.1 in both 3.5" disks and 5.25" disks. Grey box, manuals and all. If I had ever suspected such a thing like Ebay could have ever existed I would have carted the whole dumpster home. Oh well...

zzzeek 6y ago

My start in the world of urban work environments was an office temp. Oddly enough I got pretty good at using Word Perfect and was given free training for more features and stuff by one of the top temp agencies at the time, and then I got to work the "lobster" shift at lawfirms and banks. Word Perfect for DOS has a ton of features that folks normally wouldn't know about like redlining and all kinds of fancy image rendering things (sorry it was > 25 years ago and I can't recollect specifics), law firms had an entire version-control system integrated with it. Word Perfect was also how I ended up being an actual programmer for money in NYC. I started automating my work at some of these firms with macros and later with some C and Perl code and some of the gigs I had I could just walk in and spend all day on IRC while I'd get paid $20 an hour (which was a lot) for my scripts to run through all the docs they thought I was re-formatting by hand.

EricE 6y ago
Reveal Codes was the single greatest feature of WordPerfect - I'm convinced Microsoft continues to refuse to provide the equivalent out of spite for WP. Does anyone else remember calling into WP tech support during its heyday? They had a hold queue disk jokey that would interact with people on hold. It was a nice touch.
- gadders 6y ago
  I think the DJ role rotated amongst the support staff. At least that's what I told happened in the UK (Source: worked for Lotus Support, nearly worked at WP).
- onionisafruit 6y ago
  Thanks for bringing up the DJ. I remember that but what company had it. You could also have convinced me I dreamed it. edit: googled it and found an article from 1991 on what looks like a local news site. https://www.deseret.com/1991/7/17/18931236/don-t-hang-up-deejays-make-wait-bearable https://www.deseret.com/1991/7/17/18931236/don-t-hang-up-dee...
  - mholt 6y ago

tehabe 6y ago

I love how a small community is keeping a piece of software alive which is probably forgotten by most people. Adding the euro symbol or the ability to create PDF files.

forgotmypw17 6y ago

I write in Word 97 inside a VM. Still faster than LibreOffice.

dm319 6y ago
Are you on linux? See here: https://www.reddit.com/r/winehq/comments/hgr6a9/which_version_of_microsoft_word_runs_best_on/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3 https://www.reddit.com/r/winehq/comments/hgr6a9/which_versio...
- forgotmypw17 6y ago
  Thank you for suggestion, I will try installing it. After my experience with IE on Wine, I gave up trying to run Microsoft apps on Wine.
lproven 6y ago
Who needs a VM? I run it on WINE on Ubuntu. It works perfectly, including installing the service releases. Formatted cut/paste works, I can directly browse my Linux filesystem, it launches in seconds, is blisteringly quick and takes very little RAM. The only things I can't do are middle-click to paste, and use my Compose key. If you don't do them, you won't even notice it's not a native app.
- forgotmypw17 6y ago
  I use Wine too, for things like Netscape, Mosaic, etc. Microsoft apps run much better in a VM in my experience, because of how tightly coupled their development was with WinAPI. I already need a VM for IE, which definitely does not work right in Wine for me, so why not Office too.
  - lproven 6y ago
    > I use Wine too, for things like Netscape, Mosaic, etc. OK. I used to do that for IE but I haven't needed it in about a decade. > Microsoft apps run much better in a VM in my experience, because of how tightly > coupled their development was with WinAPI. Some do. Not all. WINE is also impressively good now. > I already need a VM for IE, which definitely does not work right in Wine for me That, I certainly believe. > so why not Office too. A whole bunch of reasons. [1] No need for a Windows licence; [2] Speed of startup; [3] Much lower resource usage; [4] Better integration with the host OS; [5] No need to maintain a copy of Windows inside a VM with updates; [6] No vulnerabilities in the host OS because there isn't one; [7] Windows that freely mix with native windows, not in a single seamless plane for all of them. I'm sure I could come up with more given more than a minute's thought. :-)

tomcam 6y ago

Pretty trippy. This requires a licensed copy of WordPerfect, which Corel no longer sells. They gave the rights to a woman who operates by email with the handle thewp51lady@att.net: http://www.columbia.edu/~em36/wpdos/links.html#obtain http://www.columbia.edu/~em36/wpdos/links.html#obtain

elvis70 6y ago
If you're feeling adventurous, try https://winworldpc.com/ https://winworldpc.com/
jandrese 6y ago
After reading those paragraphs I'd be inclined to just pirate the damn thing. It's very confusing. I can't tell if you actually get a license if you order from that random lady or if it's just replacement disks. There's a long section afterward about how to obtain a license key and it's basically "scour the used market and pray that you don't get scammed".
- chongli 6y ago
  You may have quite a challenge on your hands with that approach. WordPerfect for DOS is a very complicated piece of software that comes with a 600+ page paper manual. The program is absolutely chock-full of keyboard shortcuts and hidden functionality. It's not discoverable the way a modern GUI application would be. Buying it on eBay may be one of the only legal ways to get your hands on that manual. Though I suppose you could also look for a 3rd-party book, it may not cover every feature of the application.
  - therealcamino 6y ago
    Lots of people got 80% of the way there with one of those keyboard templates -- a plastic overlay that fits around your function keys and tells you what it does by itself, and when combined with Shift/Ctrl/Alt, and in the margins explains some other useful keys. But it's easier to learn by word of mouth -- when everyone around you is using it and you can ask the person next to you. Obviously that route doesn't work anymore! So people might actually read the manual.

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pseingatl 6y ago

Distraction-free alternatives: Writeroom (for Mac or its derivatives for other operating systems) --Pyroom for Linux --Darkroom for Windows --Also Q10 for Windows (which has typewriter sounds); GhostWriter, NisusWriter Pro; Ulysses. These are distraction-free writing programs. The purpose is to eliminate computer interruptions or temptations so that you can write. Scrivener: for editing and organization. Scrivener is a writing and organization program. It was originally developed by a novelist who was frustrated by how difficult it is to move back and forth in long Word documents. Word's Document Map doesn't work all that well. Originally Scrivener was supposed to be just a first draft production document but it has grown and can currently be used to create documents in just about any format a writer will need (it's a little weak on appellate briefs). It also has a full-screen distraction free mode. If you need to complete a long work quickly you need Scrivener. Also consider: Alphasmart, by Dana. This is a full-size keyboard attached to a Palm(pilot) operating system. It comes with a Word-compatible Word processor. You use SD cards to get your files off the computer. There is also an educational model which is cheaper and has less functionality. Battery life for these is very good: think weeks instead of hours.

pseingatl 6y ago
There's also Poe for Windows.
classichasclass 6y ago
Not just SD cards: the AlphaSmart series (Dana is the name of the unit, not the other way around) can emulate keyboards. Connect the Dana via USB to another computer and it will "type" your notes into it. My mother transferred her church notes this way. All AlphaSmarts do this but Dana is the most useful for modern systems because of its connectivity options and being Palm-based besides. It was really the closest thing to a Palm laptop.
WorldMaker 6y ago
While mentioning distraction free alternatives, even Word has a full screen "Focus Mode", if that is the tool you have available or need to use for whatever reason. Another useful tip: Word's Focus Mode, like some of the ones mentioned, goes to a Full Screen window. In Windows 10 you can set "Focus Assist" settings that will turn off all notifications that Windows is aware of and things like that whenever you are using a full screen application. (I believe that particular Focus Assist option is actually the default now, but it's easy to double check.)

AstroAdam 6y ago

A modern distraction-free writing tool does exist. Check out the Freewrite product line at getfreewrite.com

mechnesium 6y ago

I'm not sure how I feel about this, personally. On the one hand, this is awesome for people who might actually still use this archaic piece of software. On the other hand, it seems like a waste of resources that could be better spent on improving modern software.

cbozeman 6y ago
That's sort of my feeling on this whole deal. You could design a word processor with all the features people loved in WP 5.1, that runs on modern software and hardware.
- lproven 6y ago
  What? You couldn't, you know. Look at existing cloning efforts, like WordTsar. Years of work and they're not even really close yet. Secondly, its virtues are its blinding speed, small size and simplicity. All modern software is the reverse of that, especially the abominations of Electron apps. Thirdly, your clone couldn't be very close, as WordPerfect is alive and well and owned by Corel. Make it too close and they'll sue.
userbinator 6y ago
For some people, "modern software" is a lost cause.

bobochan 6y ago

I used to produce absolutely enormous bibliographies of scientific publication for NSF reports from databases. We used to try and write complex macros to format the text properly (not sure if we didn't know about RTF, or whether it was supported?), but it was always slow and painful. Then we found that if we used Find/Replace to put something like a [BeginItalics][EndItalics] code at the end of the title, followed by a [BeginItalics] code at the beginning of the title WP 5.1 would ignore the second [BeginItalics] code and format everything properly. We immediately figured out that we just needed to add tokens in the text and then could format hundreds of pages of text in just a few seconds. Happiness ensued.

Arubis 6y ago

For a writer that isn’t already familiar with WordPerfect, is there a compelling case to learn from scratch in this day and age? (Particularly if already familiar with another powerful editor.)

lproven 6y ago
There is a case for it in this article, by the author of the site in the root post. https://www.nybooks.com/daily/2014/10/21/escape-microsoft-word/ https://www.nybooks.com/daily/2014/10/21/escape-microsoft-wo...

aidenn0 6y ago

I remember my Dad making a function key template that went over the keyboard and included all of the modifiers. That made unusual commands findable and common commands quickly learnable. Menus are just slightly less-good at teaching shortcuts, because once you find the item, you click on it; you don't leave the menu and hit the shortcut

cpach 6y ago
Not such a bad idea. But perhaps less practical now that one use many many more applications than in the old days. Avid (video editing) had a similar thing, but took it even further: IIRC they sold their own keyboards, with color-coded keys and stuff.
duncans 6y ago
One that fitted the Model-M keyboard came in the box IIRC.
- aidenn0 6y ago
  Pretty sure my dad didn't buy the software
  - lproven 6y ago
    The keyboard template itself was a physical copy-protection measure. So people photocopied them... but they were colour-coded, and you had to faff around cutting it out, sellotaping it together, sticking it to cardboard, trimming it to fit... So many programs came with function-key templates that some 3rd parties sold little spiral-bound books that sat on the template platform, and you could flip through to the one you needed.

Rizz 6y ago

Not too long ago I was asked to do some maintenance programming on a logistics program (the program did amongst others: fill the various operated trucks to not more than capacity from orders, add new orders at any time, plan the route to drive so it doesn't take more than a workday), all written in WordPerfect 5.1 macros. That program can do a lot more than most people know about. And apparently it's still used in production.

foobar1962 6y ago

Getting WP to run on a modern computer is relatively easy compared to being able to use it without the rectangular cheat-sheet that went over your keyboard function keys to tell you what key-combinations to press. <smile>

Borlands 6y ago

Boxer works really well as a self-contained executable dosbox app on macos. It’s source is available on github, but I’m not sure they’ve chosen a OSS license model

WalterBright 6y ago

I'm surprised it isn't translated to C, so it can run without a DOS emulator. I've done this to multiple large programs written in DOS assembler. It isn't that hard. You don't even have to know how the program works to translate it.

ficklepickle 6y ago
Interesting. How does one approach such a task? Do you just use your knowledge of assembler/C to transcribe it to C? Or is it automated to some extent?
- ficklepickle 6y ago
  To answer my own question, you'd use a disassembler. I found this post about disassembling 16-bit DOS programs. https://reverseengineering.stackexchange.com/questions/3074/decompiling-a-1990-dos-application#3076 https://reverseengineering.stackexchange.com/questions/3074/...

ngcc_hk 6y ago

I evaluated it vs multimate and decide to use later. I think it is too shocked to be used by the typing pool that use 8.0 inch floppy wang machine. Unfortunately it did not play out when I found myself surrounded by 20 pretty typists, no not lovely standing there but attacked me like hell. I did not aware the change is not just the pool. “Who are you that changed my word processor and typewriter! Who are you?! What is that rubbish computer you are giving to us.” Given that they are serving all the top bosses in the organisation ... (drama at the last minute ... paper nit typing because the IT dept gave this ... I can imagine the sad face sitting outside one’s office abd who is this computer thing ... we are not accountant we use pen and type it out ...) I have to give up. Wang pc with wang software is the maximum I can do. Can’t remember I get that far. At least I have not sell them windows 1.0 the tile design in retrospect. Typist scared me in my whole career. :-(

yuskii 6y ago

WordPad Works Perfect $$omething $omething, House in Marin~