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Sydneysider here. Sydney hasn't seen anything remotely resembling an outbreak yet (not as bad as Melbourne's), but people are still wearing masks on trains, we

by yen223 6y ago

Sydneysider here. Sydney hasn't seen anything remotely resembling an outbreak yet (not as bad as Melbourne's), but people are still wearing masks on trains, we are still getting tested (for free!), and businesses generally appear to be complying with covid restrictions. Life here has been relatively normal so far. I recognize that Sydney might still be due for an outbreak, but I have more faith that the chances of that happening is low. I am incredibly thankful to be living in a country whose people and its government seem to be doing the right thing when it comes to this pandemic.

Jedd 6y ago
Fellow Sydney resident. My other half is a high school teacher - she's had I think 4 cases of cough / sniffles that have required a test, with the process being free (as you say), convenient (walking distance - there are many places that offer the swab test), and fast (results back within 48 hours, usually faster, via SMS & email). I've caught a train into the office 3 times since March - public transport utilisation is wonderfully low (though I'm avoiding peak times), and most people seem to be good about wearing a mask. I've eaten out a half dozen times only, in that time, and again people seem to be behaving and handling things admirably. Looking around at the rest of the world, it's equal parts encouraging & astonishing just how well we're doing compared to, well, not just the obvious examples, but almost everywhere else.
- LeCow 6y ago
  The mistake is to think it's never going to happen. It will get you eventually, could be 5 years, 10 years...but it will come.
  - jonsno56 6y ago
    It’ll get YoU in particular in 10 years cause you won’t get vaccinated
    - LeCow 6y ago
      ...okay I'm not sure why this needs explaining still. But this virus, like all viruses will evolve and change over time. The vaccine today won't be effective in a couple of years. I have no idea what that has to do with anything.
Devils-Avocado 6y ago
The Federal Government forecasts debt will increase by $500billion due to the pandemic response. If we take the deathtoll from Sweden (lower than the USA, Spain, Italy, Belgium), Australia could have expected 15,000 deaths, adjusted for population. Less if we consider only excess deaths. This is $33 million per life saved, typically for a person in their 80s. Is this a good use of funds? If this money was devoted instead to tackling climate change or domestic air pollution (basically the same thing), how many lives would have been saved and improved instead? Its likely that the country could have been completely decarbonised - all coal power plants shutdown, urban wood burning banned and new efficient gas heaters and insulation subsidised, and all new vehicle sales replaced with electrics.
- grecy 6y ago
  I also saw someone else say if we had done the Sweden approach and allowed those 15k deaths and saved all that money and ALSO made cigarettes illegal we would have saved many orders of magnitude more lives.
  - doubleunplussed 6y ago
    I'd bite that bullet - cigarettes should be banned. In Australia the tax on them is continuously ramped up every year and fewer and fewer people take up the habit. It's obviously an elimination strategy there as with COVID.
- 0xfaded 6y ago
  That's 25 grand per person. If life goes back to normal for Australians for 1-2 years before everyone else, that's a bargain. Considering that the Australian economy is based on digging and has an economic complexity just below Uganda[0], most of that damage was unavoidable anyway. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economic_Complexity_Index https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economic_Complexity_Index
  - Devils-Avocado 6y ago
    Australia will be the slowest to go back to normal since they will need to maintain national quarantine forever - until a suitable vaccine is found and administered. $25,000 per person is a huge amount of money, far greater than for any national scheme, ever. Probably approaching Australia's expenditure for a world war or major international conflict. Keep in mind that currently in Europe - there is very limited excess mortality. For example in Belgium right now, there are less excess deaths than from a heatwave in August: https://www.euromomo.eu/graphs-and-maps/#z-scores-by-country https://www.euromomo.eu/graphs-and-maps/#z-scores-by-country Sweden and other non-lockdown countries are already back to normal. The only thing preventing normality is politicians who insist on lockdowns for a virus which is currently not causing excess deaths beyond what we would expect from regular influenza.
hnick 6y ago
Also someone in Sydney who hasn't caught a train since probably March, masks do seem kind of rare places I go (south and eastern suburbs). And the days of 1.5m social distancing are long gone. It's not enforced at all, people walk all over paths and stairs and you have to squeeze by. Which is probably not a big deal, overall, because as you say rates are low and it's basically gone at this point. Some places are taking it seriously though, I know for example a relative with a child in daycare had to get her daughter tested multiple times. Every symptom needs a test, and kids tend to have snotty noses even when healthy, which gets them pulled aside and parents called for a test before they can come back.

by yen223 6y ago

Jedd 6y ago

Fellow Sydney resident. My other half is a high school teacher - she's had I think 4 cases of cough / sniffles that have required a test, with the process being free (as you say), convenient (walking distance - there are many places that offer the swab test), and fast (results back within 48 hours, usually faster, via SMS & email). I've caught a train into the office 3 times since March - public transport utilisation is wonderfully low (though I'm avoiding peak times), and most people seem to be good about wearing a mask. I've eaten out a half dozen times only, in that time, and again people seem to be behaving and handling things admirably. Looking around at the rest of the world, it's equal parts encouraging & astonishing just how well we're doing compared to, well, not just the obvious examples, but almost everywhere else.

LeCow 6y ago
The mistake is to think it's never going to happen. It will get you eventually, could be 5 years, 10 years...but it will come.
- jonsno56 6y ago
  It’ll get YoU in particular in 10 years cause you won’t get vaccinated
  - LeCow 6y ago
    ...okay I'm not sure why this needs explaining still. But this virus, like all viruses will evolve and change over time. The vaccine today won't be effective in a couple of years. I have no idea what that has to do with anything.

Devils-Avocado 6y ago

The Federal Government forecasts debt will increase by $500billion due to the pandemic response. If we take the deathtoll from Sweden (lower than the USA, Spain, Italy, Belgium), Australia could have expected 15,000 deaths, adjusted for population. Less if we consider only excess deaths. This is $33 million per life saved, typically for a person in their 80s. Is this a good use of funds? If this money was devoted instead to tackling climate change or domestic air pollution (basically the same thing), how many lives would have been saved and improved instead? Its likely that the country could have been completely decarbonised - all coal power plants shutdown, urban wood burning banned and new efficient gas heaters and insulation subsidised, and all new vehicle sales replaced with electrics.

grecy 6y ago
I also saw someone else say if we had done the Sweden approach and allowed those 15k deaths and saved all that money and ALSO made cigarettes illegal we would have saved many orders of magnitude more lives.
- doubleunplussed 6y ago
  I'd bite that bullet - cigarettes should be banned. In Australia the tax on them is continuously ramped up every year and fewer and fewer people take up the habit. It's obviously an elimination strategy there as with COVID.
0xfaded 6y ago
That's 25 grand per person. If life goes back to normal for Australians for 1-2 years before everyone else, that's a bargain. Considering that the Australian economy is based on digging and has an economic complexity just below Uganda[0], most of that damage was unavoidable anyway. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economic_Complexity_Index https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economic_Complexity_Index
- Devils-Avocado 6y ago
  Australia will be the slowest to go back to normal since they will need to maintain national quarantine forever - until a suitable vaccine is found and administered. $25,000 per person is a huge amount of money, far greater than for any national scheme, ever. Probably approaching Australia's expenditure for a world war or major international conflict. Keep in mind that currently in Europe - there is very limited excess mortality. For example in Belgium right now, there are less excess deaths than from a heatwave in August: https://www.euromomo.eu/graphs-and-maps/#z-scores-by-country https://www.euromomo.eu/graphs-and-maps/#z-scores-by-country Sweden and other non-lockdown countries are already back to normal. The only thing preventing normality is politicians who insist on lockdowns for a virus which is currently not causing excess deaths beyond what we would expect from regular influenza.

hnick 6y ago

Also someone in Sydney who hasn't caught a train since probably March, masks do seem kind of rare places I go (south and eastern suburbs). And the days of 1.5m social distancing are long gone. It's not enforced at all, people walk all over paths and stairs and you have to squeeze by. Which is probably not a big deal, overall, because as you say rates are low and it's basically gone at this point. Some places are taking it seriously though, I know for example a relative with a child in daycare had to get her daughter tested multiple times. Every symptom needs a test, and kids tend to have snotty noses even when healthy, which gets them pulled aside and parents called for a test before they can come back.