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Is there an underlying pattern here: Canada's most 'socialist' big city is also its most corrupt?

by elevenoh 6y ago

goodlyvibes 6y ago
Does a single instance of a thing represent a pattern?
bawolff 6y ago
What makes montreal the most "socialist"? Which socialist policies even apply at the municipal level?
- freeone3000 6y ago
  Montreal has a public housing initiative, but so does Toronto. The public transit networks are municipal, so maybe those? We've also got a good library system...
  - bawolff 6y ago
    Those damn commies and their public transit (that you have to pay for) ;) The library system in montreal (+BANQ) is one of the things i missed most when i left. It really was amazing.
- elevenoh 6y ago
  culturally, the income taxes, the intra-provice tuition, low competitiveness in publicly-funded domains e.g. city construction, subsidies etc. I've lived there. Any canadian who has lived in all the big cities (toronto, vancouver, montreal, calgary) will tell you the same.
  - bawolff 6y ago
    So in other words, things that have nothing to do with the city of montreal, but are the domain of either the provincial or federal government (other than construction which i'll give you is not great... but not sure how you link it to socialism.) > I've lived there. So have I
kyriee 6y ago
It’s not a “socialist” city and it has not been proven to be more corrupt unless you count anecdotal media reports to be robust scientific studies. There is corruption, but it’s not clear how much worse it is than in other North American cities. Also, fun fact, parties that seemed to be more engaged in this corruption were not the “socialist” ones, but the neoliberal ones. But hey, don’t let that stop you, it’s a great strawman you built there.
- jariel 6y ago
  I live in Montreal it is 1) expressly more socialist and 2) definitely more corrupt. The government here pays huge subsidies for electricity, a lot of social housing and a generous $6/day child care regime, which is far more than anywhere else in the US. Montreal is measurably 'more corrupt' [1], there's no doubt about it, there was a massive investigation into it, and some of it was addressed by having more intelligent/trained buyers for public sector goods etc., but much remains. "At the Charbonneau inquiry, an "ex-construction boss said that for years, three per cent of the value of all contracts he received from the city of Montreal went to the mayor's party, and another one per cent, known as "la taxe à Surprenant," went to a city official" I don't think the level of corruption has that much to do with the ideology of government though. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charbonneau_Commission https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charbonneau_Commission
  - reactor4 6y ago
    That commission didn't "measure" any other jurisdiction so what are you talking about? And because there was "a massive investigation into it" doesn't mean it's worse than elsewhere, if anything it implies the contrary.
  - mcguire 6y ago
    "The government here pays huge subsidies for electricity, a lot of social housing and a generous $6/day child care regime, which is far more than anywhere else in the US." Montreal is in the US?

Is there an underlying pattern here: Canada's most 'socialist' big city is also its most corrupt?

goodlyvibes 6y ago

Does a single instance of a thing represent a pattern?

bawolff 6y ago

What makes montreal the most "socialist"? Which socialist policies even apply at the municipal level?

freeone3000 6y ago
Montreal has a public housing initiative, but so does Toronto. The public transit networks are municipal, so maybe those? We've also got a good library system...
- bawolff 6y ago
  Those damn commies and their public transit (that you have to pay for) ;) The library system in montreal (+BANQ) is one of the things i missed most when i left. It really was amazing.
elevenoh 6y ago
culturally, the income taxes, the intra-provice tuition, low competitiveness in publicly-funded domains e.g. city construction, subsidies etc. I've lived there. Any canadian who has lived in all the big cities (toronto, vancouver, montreal, calgary) will tell you the same.
- bawolff 6y ago
  So in other words, things that have nothing to do with the city of montreal, but are the domain of either the provincial or federal government (other than construction which i'll give you is not great... but not sure how you link it to socialism.) > I've lived there. So have I

kyriee 6y ago

It’s not a “socialist” city and it has not been proven to be more corrupt unless you count anecdotal media reports to be robust scientific studies. There is corruption, but it’s not clear how much worse it is than in other North American cities. Also, fun fact, parties that seemed to be more engaged in this corruption were not the “socialist” ones, but the neoliberal ones. But hey, don’t let that stop you, it’s a great strawman you built there.

jariel 6y ago
I live in Montreal it is 1) expressly more socialist and 2) definitely more corrupt. The government here pays huge subsidies for electricity, a lot of social housing and a generous $6/day child care regime, which is far more than anywhere else in the US. Montreal is measurably 'more corrupt' [1], there's no doubt about it, there was a massive investigation into it, and some of it was addressed by having more intelligent/trained buyers for public sector goods etc., but much remains. "At the Charbonneau inquiry, an "ex-construction boss said that for years, three per cent of the value of all contracts he received from the city of Montreal went to the mayor's party, and another one per cent, known as "la taxe à Surprenant," went to a city official" I don't think the level of corruption has that much to do with the ideology of government though. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charbonneau_Commission https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charbonneau_Commission
- reactor4 6y ago
  That commission didn't "measure" any other jurisdiction so what are you talking about? And because there was "a massive investigation into it" doesn't mean it's worse than elsewhere, if anything it implies the contrary.
- mcguire 6y ago
  "The government here pays huge subsidies for electricity, a lot of social housing and a generous $6/day child care regime, which is far more than anywhere else in the US." Montreal is in the US?