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> would be happy to enter into a contract with Tesla It is not Tesla's car. They don't own it anymore. The liability would be the same for any other car. >

by stale2002 6y ago

> would be happy to enter into a contract with Tesla It is not Tesla's car. They don't own it anymore. The liability would be the same for any other car. > this would be covered by the car's insurance, right Yes. Which has nothing to do with Tesla. > then I can accept Tesla not wanting to be held liable Tesla does not own that car. The car would be the same as any other car that Tesla does not own.

JoeAltmaier 6y ago
A defect that is the fault of the manufacturer is certainly a way to sue Tesla for 'cars they don't own'. Happens all the time. Daily. And after you jailbreak your Tesla and cause an injury accident, who's to know? Just say you didn't, and it was Tesla's defect. Of course Tesla is concerned.
- stale2002 6y ago
  > And after you jailbreak your Tesla The Tesla belongs to the user. It no longer belongs to Tesla. That is all that matters. > Of course Tesla is concerned. Their concern is of no importance to me regarding things that they no longer own. I simply do not care what their concern is on anything that is no longer owned by them.
  - JoeAltmaier 6y ago
    Good for you. But society has rules and laws, and Tesla is indeed responsible for failures in design or manufacturing. As evidenced by hundreds of lawsuits of other manufacturers, for a century.
    - olyjohn 6y ago
      That doesn't mean that a handful of people with jail-broken cars are going to be able to get together and prove a manufacturing defect. If there were 2000 cars that were jailbroken, and they all crashed in the same way due to the jailbreak.. don't you think they'd figure out that the jailbreak was the problem? It's not that hard to tell if the software has been changed from stock. If they all failed differently, and had different accidents in different scenarios, you're going to have a hard time proving a manufacturer defect.
    - stale2002 6y ago
      > But society has rules and laws Yes, and those rules and laws say that the car belongs to the consumer, and the consumer can basically do whatever they want to that car, regardless if Tesla doesn't want that. Tesla has no legal right to prevent someone from salvaging a car that belongs to the person. A consumer has the legal right to salvage that car, no matter what Tesla thinks on the matter. Right to repair laws are on the consumers side, not Tesla's. This is well established law, that has been in existence for literally decades, and Tesla does not get to ignore these well established laws. The fact that "Of course Tesla is concerned." is not my problem. It is not the problem of consumers, who have legals rights. And I don't care what Tesla is "concerned" about, because consumers have the legal right to salvages cars, and Tesla does not get to ignore these laws. > Tesla is indeed responsible Sucks to be Tesla then! They can shut down their business and stop making cars, if they don't like the laws that allow consumers to salvage cars.
- olyjohn 6y ago
  Let's apply this scenario to a non-Tesla car. And instead of a jailbreak, you decide to do your own brake job on your car. "And after you do your own brake job on your Honda and cause an injury accident, who's to know? Just say you didn't, and it was Honda's defect." This applies to any kind of thing you do to your own car. There's always some chance that something can go wrong and cause a huge wreck. There's always a part that can go bad, and there's always going to be someone who lies to cover up or blames the manufacturer. You could drive your wheel into a curb, damage your suspension, and then have it fall off a week later and crash into oncoming traffic. And still blame the manufacturer for it. The point is, you don't need to modify a car, or jailbreak it, or anything for these lawsuits to happen.
srtjstjsj 6y ago
Does Tesla sell cars? Or do they sell car-shaped things that run on licensed software?

JoeAltmaier 6y ago

A defect that is the fault of the manufacturer is certainly a way to sue Tesla for 'cars they don't own'. Happens all the time. Daily. And after you jailbreak your Tesla and cause an injury accident, who's to know? Just say you didn't, and it was Tesla's defect. Of course Tesla is concerned.

stale2002 6y ago
> And after you jailbreak your Tesla The Tesla belongs to the user. It no longer belongs to Tesla. That is all that matters. > Of course Tesla is concerned. Their concern is of no importance to me regarding things that they no longer own. I simply do not care what their concern is on anything that is no longer owned by them.
- JoeAltmaier 6y ago
  Good for you. But society has rules and laws, and Tesla is indeed responsible for failures in design or manufacturing. As evidenced by hundreds of lawsuits of other manufacturers, for a century.
  - olyjohn 6y ago
    That doesn't mean that a handful of people with jail-broken cars are going to be able to get together and prove a manufacturing defect. If there were 2000 cars that were jailbroken, and they all crashed in the same way due to the jailbreak.. don't you think they'd figure out that the jailbreak was the problem? It's not that hard to tell if the software has been changed from stock. If they all failed differently, and had different accidents in different scenarios, you're going to have a hard time proving a manufacturer defect.
  - stale2002 6y ago
    > But society has rules and laws Yes, and those rules and laws say that the car belongs to the consumer, and the consumer can basically do whatever they want to that car, regardless if Tesla doesn't want that. Tesla has no legal right to prevent someone from salvaging a car that belongs to the person. A consumer has the legal right to salvage that car, no matter what Tesla thinks on the matter. Right to repair laws are on the consumers side, not Tesla's. This is well established law, that has been in existence for literally decades, and Tesla does not get to ignore these well established laws. The fact that "Of course Tesla is concerned." is not my problem. It is not the problem of consumers, who have legals rights. And I don't care what Tesla is "concerned" about, because consumers have the legal right to salvages cars, and Tesla does not get to ignore these laws. > Tesla is indeed responsible Sucks to be Tesla then! They can shut down their business and stop making cars, if they don't like the laws that allow consumers to salvage cars.
olyjohn 6y ago
Let's apply this scenario to a non-Tesla car. And instead of a jailbreak, you decide to do your own brake job on your car. "And after you do your own brake job on your Honda and cause an injury accident, who's to know? Just say you didn't, and it was Honda's defect." This applies to any kind of thing you do to your own car. There's always some chance that something can go wrong and cause a huge wreck. There's always a part that can go bad, and there's always going to be someone who lies to cover up or blames the manufacturer. You could drive your wheel into a curb, damage your suspension, and then have it fall off a week later and crash into oncoming traffic. And still blame the manufacturer for it. The point is, you don't need to modify a car, or jailbreak it, or anything for these lawsuits to happen.

srtjstjsj 6y ago

Does Tesla sell cars? Or do they sell car-shaped things that run on licensed software?